Unknown 0:00 started. Unknown 0:01 So what is your role, and since when I met a bishop to the police a managing partner. Since 1999 1999 almost 20 years. 20 years. Yeah. So, how many years of experience do you have with software development on mobile app development, mobile app development that is a mistake we started in 2015. So about five years, five years, five years, four years. Yes, let's say four years. Unknown 0:35 And how many, how many years of experience you have been gathering requirements within the mobile app or or selling, but you can tell me both if you have. Unknown 0:47 When we started regarding mobile apps that's four years ago four years ago, we have to collect the requirements and an overall thing, since we started in 1999 because the first day we started developing software for our customers requirements were a very important part of the concrete climate. And what is the academic background so on your computer engineering background or income, or do you call it in English for engineering, it's a fall to function from the bachelor and then a master's degree in business administration. Okay, So you have both the backup side. Unknown 1:32 Do you need anything regarding your work. Baby online blogs, articles, any publications. Unknown 1:41 We have several journals. Unknown 1:46 The consent, every second week I think I even don't know. But it's German and Swiss German it industrial track journalism, so you keep yourself updated by whatever techniques you use for granting requirements. Unknown 2:02 I expected this question. Unknown 2:04 I prepared to fill out how you're going to answer your question. Yeah. Unknown 2:09 The point is we don't have any process, not as you mentioned that. So your question to us and we had two weeks ago. So, we don't have a model or a process, a defined process point is that we have very much contact with our customers. Unknown 2:27 Because maybe maybe it's a little bit different to older persons you made an interview. We only have business customers in private. Unknown 2:37 Private customers. That's why it's much easier for us to get input from there. Unknown 2:43 So that's what we do we have any contact with our customers and we know what they need and what they don't need looking. That's the process, written down somewhere on the slide so it's a really sad right so it's mostly self taught let's see and experience. Yes, yeah can I do a lot of presentations when I my way for a sales solutions. When we sell our platform. And then you get lots of people say, very nice very nice mobile app but it would be nice when, then I go back and we have an opportunity where we collect all the changes the requirements and then we start prioritizing it and deciding whether we put it in into the platform or not, it takes a bit about your company now, how many points you have eight. eight. Unknown 3:34 Okay. Unknown 3:36 And so, which are the geographical area to target for your apps, is it just Switzerland you look at the moment, Switzerland, Switzerland, where are we in half a year we will expand to Austrian, german, we have any offices disappoint the audience. Okay. And how many apps do you have, you just want to try because it public, or is it. It is, it is public, public cloud booking but you can you can download it, but you cannot use it because you don't have access. If you don't have access rights. Unknown 4:09 So you can download it from app stores. Yes, from from from Google Play Store and from the iOS store listing. Unknown 4:17 When you started you don't have an access, access rights. Is it free or paid, it's free it's. Unknown 4:25 The special thing is you, you need to use it within our platform. Okay, So when the app is part of our platform. Okay. So, when you, when when a customer decides to put to use the platform he has to pay. Ok, ok, but he doesn't pay for the app for the iPad so okay. Unknown 4:43 And can you tell me how many users you have, for example, Unknown 4:50 a moment at the moment let's say registered users. Unknown 4:58 Okay, about a bit of policies. Do you have any official language of communication within the company. Unknown 5:06 Sister, Swiss German this. Ok. Unknown 5:10 But, so your developers also question is Unknown 5:16 do you build mobile apps or software in general I Unknown 5:22 didn't get the question, all only mobile apps or software, both of Unknown 5:30 which app stores or platforms to support for mobile apps, iOS, Android, both your support team that is nobody knows nobody is. It's obsolete. Unknown 5:44 And who decides the platforms Is it you, or is it the customer, on behalf of customer. As such, or visit you, who built the product. Unknown 5:54 It's also we build the pro serve is our product is your practice again. So in this case, you only decided, the platform. Right. Right. Exactly. It's based on the expectations from our customers. Unknown 6:08 So you are the product based on. Do not service based, so you do not provide services. Unknown 6:14 I mean, it depends on what you mean with services. Our is a software as a service product we do have him. So, what I mean is, you do not build software for other companies. Unknown 6:27 Not anymore. Not anymore. Unknown 6:29 Yes, until end of last year, looking so we switched our strategy from our own we don't do that anymore. We only are based on our platform. Unknown 6:44 Okay. Unknown 6:46 So, could you tell me a bit about how the team's look like in a company. Unknown 6:51 Do they have, and so on. Unknown 6:53 So we have a unique specialty rolls over there is one of the managing partner. That's me. Yeah. Here's one CEO, and the rest of our software developers developers, and the CEO is also sort of developing software. And I think you've said, you have to the team would have I think six or seven right here. Unknown 7:19 You also said this. Unknown 7:21 So, you do not have any customers as such, but we have any business partners, business partners now customers Yes, the partners. Now, This is part of the premier partners, which are the companies. Unknown 7:35 And they, they also are based on our platform that's what you mean, this business partners so Unknown 7:44 I think this question would not be related to you, because what I was going to ask us, in which phases of the product development, are the customers involved. But the point is, when you gather requirements from your customers do better requirements at all from customers, first of all. Yes we do. Yes we do. Yes. and in that case in which phases are the environment. Unknown 8:12 So the situation we have is that our platform is very, very solid material. Unknown 8:18 And there are really some kind of small changes which we get through requirements where we get from our customers. And they tell me that core requirement, let's say, okay, directly, it will be great if that's okay. And then the very start. So it's at the very beginning I would say from the beginning yeah it's very beginning yeah because we get input from them that we also have own ideas how to expand or and how to put the new functionality but but it's basically it's when it comes from a customer, where is the requirement, then it comes from the very very beginning. Okay. Unknown 8:58 Does it happen that because it customers, they are experienced. Unknown 9:03 They had some experience lip service mobile apps or software. In general, does it influence your work in good or bad, is it good. Is it bad. It is good here. It is good news and resource but it's also very challenging for us because we're in what sense for good in what sense in how good it is an invite. Is it good, because it brings us further because the customer compares our mobile app within regular MC uses every day like WhatsApp black whatever. And then he expects more or less that our app works more or less similar to one of which is built by a US company with does you don't already know. So it's kind of challenging but it's good to get Unknown 9:51 this question a bit of it, but I think they're important. Unknown 9:55 Have you ever encounter any security glitch in your apps or in your app security issues you mean, no, no, not yet, not very professional. Unknown 10:07 No, no, we haven't met know how you face any legal challenges, so far. Unknown 10:14 Yes we did here. Could you when it's about the Unknown 10:21 data documents planes about the doctrines, but not when it started the discussion in made explained to the lady, she is cooking. It's the question of our customers, whether it's allowed to set up to, to store data outside Sweden, because we use a Microsoft as our platform and servers are in Hollins Aaron, Ireland, and our customers are cities and communities and they asked me today are allowed to put the data, getting on the servers in Holland and in Ireland. Unknown 10:56 And this is done so we take one since GDPR everybody's more sensitive. Unknown 11:02 In that context, do you have legal experts in the team. Unknown 11:06 The team outside, we have a company which works for so if you outsource the legal Yes, yes, we don't have it on our own know do have any copyright so cadence for your any of your software. We have copyrights we have on the name on the software name, there is a year mark control so Unknown 11:29 it's a brand identity Yes, but not a, we don't have any patents now. Yeah, I'm just not a concern, it's not really. It's not important. Unknown 11:38 No, because I'm quite sure if I watch company or the company, things that they have to compete for you're doing. Unknown 11:46 So, doesn't make sense. Unknown 11:51 So now we will talk about the subject. Unknown 11:55 So could you describe the process of app development within your company since the customer comes to you and until you have your first release of the product. How does it look, how do you start, what you do. Unknown 12:11 And as I said before it's kind of maybe it's a little bit special what we're doing here because we don't do lots of develop development of different apps. It's always one. We are only talking about one on specific Apple product. And then, the point is, as I said, it's quite major magnitude. And then what happens is that we internally decide what we will do within the next version at moment we have on the platform version number three. Unknown 12:42 And we have a new version every 18 months maybe a blotch verse of the version and the discussion starts viewing just wait for the app, or the platform, both together what he goes in parallel, okay because, because the, the app is highly connected to the platform. Okay, so that means when we extends major to platform with major functionality we do the same day as well. So it goes together in parallel. OK, so the process let's see if we can talk about the processes that we decide what what is it do for our next large rushes. Unknown 13:19 And then we include requirements, we have collected, as I said before from presentations from whatever phone calls from our existing customers. We included in to make a package for the next version. Okay, that's not very rocket science but today it's when it's basic what we are doing. Yes, and we discuss it and the normal thing is, what happens is that you have much more ideas and requirements. Unknown 13:48 Then you can then at the end, integrate into the platform because it's a question about time and money and so we have to make a prioritization and say okay this and this can be done and we have to skip some other requirements for the next version. Unknown 14:05 If we consider the entire project as hundred percent electron, you have some new requirements. I mean you collect requirements you analyzing whatever. Unknown 14:14 And you develop a new release. So if this is 100% process, how much of it. How much percent of it. Would you look at for requirements specific job tasks from collected requirement, until end of implementation, that's that's the time span. You mean, that's hundred percent that's 100% until deployment. Correct. So, I had different answers people take 5% 10% I would say 10, to the next to the Max. Unknown 14:47 Max. Unknown 14:52 Do you have any challenges regarding cost and budget, I don't suppose because you because you do not have any customers such who pays you for building that. Unknown 15:04 Yeah, we don't have a director but but we, we still do have it because we have our own budget product platform budget. Unknown 15:13 The resources which are allocated to that project. And so there we also have challenges. Yeah, could you could you could you name a few of the challenges features which would be, or, which are required, but we don't have time to do it, and money. So that's the basic challenge. Unknown 15:35 It will also be nice to have, whatever, but we don't have time anymore and yeah it looks something like time it's also the money to resources to integrate that and that's the most important challenge we do have on is how many customers, usually participate in this process of requirements gathering Kate, and with different customers, some of them, we don't we never hear something and others are are very much into integrated and we also have a very steady contact with them. So I would say half of our ID number and the platform is used by at the moment by eight, and four of them three to four are very much integrated into it. Okay. Unknown 16:33 Have you asked your customers, a version that if they face any problems regarding anything regarding the entire process of working with you or software or during gathering requirements and so on. Whether they, where do they have problems on Joe did they did, they like what we are doing. Okay so, so it works. It works perfectly so, yeah, I also get the confirmation from our customers that they like it when we try to to to to integrate their requirements and they're like yeah and as I said before, there are some customers who do not care at all so chemical that just use the platform and how do you how do you communicate with them, by phone by physical participant, just present meetings. Yeah. So when we sit them sometime, then we can talk about the platform about the mobile app. And, yeah, that's how we can click that and who is allowed to talk to them. Do your developers also talk to them, or is it normally No, no, no, no, no, not the developers. Could you see that. Unknown 17:46 For example, I asked this question also don't really want that developers should focus on the book, and should not be distracted by all the communication and so on. That's one of the reason you know so sometimes it is helpful to talk directly to customers, because then you can solve the problems quite faster, technical problems. Unknown 18:09 How would you. Yeah, that's the first thing you said, that's really pointed don't want to get them distracted and the second thing is that sometimes you need to translate the business process to functionality. So you need to have some special know how, how to customer words, because it. It's not exactly how the app works. And this translation is very important and they will awaken developers or not. Because it's not about intelligence, but it's about experience experience and about the use cases to regular use cases where where our app and our platform is us. So that's, that's the main, main important thing, somehow have to translate that Yeah, right. Unknown 18:55 Who is responsible for doing market research or user research. Is it you, that's me as a salesperson is. Okay. Unknown 19:02 How does it work. How do you know the users, the users Unknown 19:10 experience, lots of talk, lots of phone calls. Have you say today, Germany, called a crease and when you just pick up your phone and just dial have call somebody who have never heard from you before so and to get lots of inputs there and looking at until you get to about your competitors about requirements about what area. That's how the competition. Unknown 19:39 And the second thing is, we also visit some summer conferences and network meetings, and then also you guys didn't do is to collect requirements about the users, or do you already know now that Katie's our users. So you already have this understanding. Unknown 19:59 We should collect, you still use to collect here, and we have very special users. tell us to our first degree burn, burn, and they have visited them twice, only out on the road and use our app. The just see what they are doing and sometimes they say Marcus. I don't like this, it takes too much time and so then I go back to the office until it to my colleagues because they would have to do something so it's very face to face contact that we can do that because we are not we don't have so many getting customers in your, I think he was Assad here in Switzerland. Yes. Unknown 20:33 And when user is special bodies Indian bird city of burn. So, it's very easy for me, and sometimes I'm seeing them by coincidence where they are on the road. They use it on the road with a clean, clean buildings. Yeah, can just go to them say hello. Unknown 20:48 How does it work so that's very, very nice. So this question wouldn't really make sense for you, so you don't have to consider differences between users, because you have Swiss users. Unknown 21:00 The question was more or less like a Japanese was it would be much more different Unknown 21:07 is, how do you make assumptions about these users but you do not face such challenges. Unknown 21:14 Not at the moment what we will do as I said before, we want to expand Germany and Austria. But I think it's more or less, it's, it's about the business process, we were covered by our mobile. Unknown 21:27 And I assume that is the same token, I don't know whether it would be the same in Japan but I never thought about that but basically it's the same and they can. Yeah. Unknown 21:41 Do you know this word non functional requirements. Non, non functional requirements, which is more what in case of mobile apps let's say performance design coast fast it is. Unknown 21:54 So these kind of requirements to you also correct toes. Yes, definitely yes, definitely, especially with the, with the performance of them. So we have beginning answer performance issues. That's where one important thing that call you got it goes. Unknown 22:10 Basically you get more experience and then certificate service calls. We have a cold platform where you can put some issues and. And the second thing is what we see also is a. Unknown 22:24 That's a I don't know how was it called, internet, some software called on our app, which sends us the messages when as soon as, as the the app the mobile app crashes. And we see that on our on the surface. Unknown 22:41 Do you do prototyping for the app. Unknown 22:45 Yes, we can do that. Unknown 22:47 Could you tell me how useful it is the to take time because it costly, or is it good. It is very good. It was very good Yes, very good yes we need that prototyping, definitely. Can you give me your kind of couple of advantages what you get, because of prototyping and see the user interface it so that's that's one of the very important things and which data is showing because normally when you have an engineering approach. You think about what what kind of data, do I have. So, basically I showed everything, but it doesn't make sense from a user perspective so right you have to be where anybody aware of how on what you show, and how the whole interaction with the US it works. And that's the big advantage of prototyping and testing and trying, and that's very cool, who does the designing part. Unknown 23:42 Do you have experts design experts within the team or yes we have to designing experts us with. So data residing today or they have a terrible sort of basic, let's say, software developers that they have a special focus on on on your assignment, so you do not outsource the designing part, and we did before, but we did not do very good experience that may be reduced to roll. Unknown 24:08 It was an opportunity rover on the road Paki I don't know. Unknown 24:12 But he said okay, maybe we will try it again because we are not a very big experts to once we did that twice. Unknown 24:22 So the the advantages were announced that go to, which was paid. Unknown 24:26 So that's interesting because almost every company I outsource do anymore, because it just took our time consuming. Unknown 24:38 And it's really tricky because he was huge when you look at the design. Unknown 24:43 And if they don't like the design, they just don't use that. Unknown 24:48 Yep. Unknown 24:49 But that's also maybe a little bit different to work to the other persons who we're talking to our mobile app is not for, for fun. It's killing, so that means when the boss says you have to use it, and he agreed to have to use it today, even if they don't like to call it or I don't like the buttons to use it so it's a little bit different. Unknown 25:11 Right. Do you have any group sessions with your customers like workshops or. Unknown 25:19 We have webinars. Maybe that's that's what we're doing this webinars, regular webinars and also webinars and when we have major new versions. Can we make a webinar and more simulation on how to be effective, and from us it's very effective I don't know whether it's effective for for from a customer perspective but for us. It means it in that we it takes us some preparation time, and one hour to to to to do it this webinar, then it's done, or two or three other thing, because we contact each of our customer and how many people really participate in that. Unknown 26:00 2013. Unknown 26:03 So you can add had the same time you can talk to 20 people, that's not the correct template. Unknown 26:09 So you will save time, differently. Unknown 26:14 Do you use any mobile tools, or did it already features of mobile devices which you can use for candidate requirements, like Canada or using location and we don't use No, no. Unknown 26:29 And, Unknown 26:33 if at all possible knowing you Unknown 26:38 do your customers, they have any preference regarding a specific operating system like iOS or Android Unknown 26:47 of the operating system. Unknown 26:49 And I think it's 5050 years but we are interesting thing is that the higher the level of within the organization to more is we are, and the lower. Unknown 27:05 It's very interesting. Unknown 27:09 Okay. Unknown 27:11 So which tools to use for correcting refinements on managing them, and so on. And we have difficulties difficult to have Microsoft Azure. Unknown 27:23 Earlier it was called Microsoft Teams services, you know, it's called the false. That's what we are using for collecting requirements and independent them an assignment to have to sprint. Unknown 27:36 at the tools which are used for communication, also on communication within, within the company or external within the company. Unknown 27:45 We're a small company normally we just have any can talk and then the basic things like Microsoft Teams and. Unknown 27:53 And, Yeah, that's it. But Microsoft Teams is also established in our company because sometimes we work at home and get to these teams teams is the one. Do you also collect privacy requirements or security requirements is definitely a CS. Unknown 28:11 How do you do that from from a from a user persecuted from a US perspective of the customers for the customer so Unknown 28:24 we do that, yes, with how to do that because, who is the expert in that. Unknown 28:31 And that's also, that's over see you as CEO and Chief development is the collection or to the input is coming from the customer. It's normally to close to me, but then I hand it over to him. This collecting that and take care of everybody very special. We used as a single sign on mechanism that you can enter your password and then we had some issues with their, we had some something let's call some challenges. And the result in them. Unknown 29:14 And to put the requirements. Unknown 29:17 Is that correct my answer. Unknown 29:21 Because usually it's really hard together as a requirement because neither your usage meter your customers to have enough adequate knowledge about it. Unknown 29:30 Yeah, that's correct answer. Sorry, it's like this they don't care. They don't care. They don't care this is what I've worked mostly. Unknown 29:37 That's correct, yes, they don't care because they just expect that it works, they can only when they get the consequences. Right. Unknown 29:44 Right. Unknown 29:45 Now that's correct. Yeah, my answer was wrong before and that's that's that's a big thing they don't care, they just use it. And the only thing when you care when it can't login, because you need to log in to our system also over the mobile app, you have to log in and if it doesn't work then you get the call, but if it works and everything is fine can do legal issues, change the way you collect requirements. Unknown 30:10 For example, now you have GDPR. So you have to be really careful about certain things we do, and yet there are more sensitive, since since it started this discussion. As I said before, it did not start in 2018 and started before in 2015 when we deployed the first version of a moment. But, yes, definitely yes. Any other issues. Apart from GDPR, which could be influential for requirements, legal things. Unknown 30:41 Like, your mind, your customer might have a patent or copyright on certain things, things like that. Unknown 30:53 No, I think no no what what do you have he said it's also maybe a little bit special. Our customer needs to sign a contract. Unknown 31:01 And in this contract several things little things are agreed on. That means, for example, what is a meanings, pictures, you know process so he is. He's taking pictures when he started the process with his mobile and, and it could happen that some pictures are not allowed on the platform because they are should such kind of issues for area, but this is part of the, of the legal contract we have so we have that signed by department a costume. And if we see that some things some, let's call it bad pictures are stored. Then we have to, but this continuous template to experience, right, that such instances can happen. Unknown 31:45 We learned it by somehow from Microsoft. We got a basic template contract template for for this kind of contract, and they were just mentioned. Interesting. Unknown 31:57 So I hope it's that contract. And the adapted it to our needs and then I send a follow up lawyer and he went through again but the basic stuff is coming from from Microsoft case. Because, for example, this is a picture issue. Unknown 32:15 Let's talk a bit about the second part of the interview where we will try to see if mobile applications, or if at all different software's how. Yeah. Unknown 32:29 So, in your opinion, what are the major differences between mobile app development and mobile web development or software. Unknown 32:41 I will also try to give you some hints. Unknown 32:53 What we see is that the challenge we do have is that it's totally different user group will have when they use our mobile app, compared to a to a web development. It's totally different. That's the basic challenge it must be very very easy to handle the software side you know that that's one of the challenges with weather because. Unknown 33:19 Yeah, when you're a platform a business platform as our platform where you can have. So, access from within the browser. Then you have more experienced persons who sit in an office. Unknown 33:35 The ones who are using a rep. Unknown 33:37 They are not very familiar with, basically software you're familiar with some, sometimes they use private as well but that's really important challenge and the point is it must be ready ready ready, easy to handle. Otherwise they will not use it to tell it to their boss and the boss calls me and says, complicated. Unknown 33:59 And so that's the very, very important thing must be when you're ready to serve explain anything else you can think of. Unknown 34:16 So it is yeah, I mean, it is that's what the development process. So, the development process for mobile apps, is it different than web development or software development what you did before. Unknown 34:33 What we're doing is, we do more updates on the mobile part Unknown 34:40 because of whatever issues and small changes. Unknown 34:44 That's also a difference to the, to the web platform. Unknown 34:49 And that's regarding development process. So I'm going to give you an example. When you have a web application. Unknown 34:59 It is very easy and fast to deploy new changes. Unknown 35:03 When it comes to mobile apps, you are dependent or limited by app stores, because they have their own from what he sees. Unknown 35:12 And they have their own workflows. So, it is not usually that you will deploy new changes, couple of times a day. Unknown 35:20 But you really have to plan in advance. So it kind of follow team. Kids the flexibility. Unknown 35:29 Device correct yes yeah. Yeah, because it will depend on on all the partners. When we deployed on us to consider this as a difference to normal software development. Unknown 35:40 Definitely so it's a good input Yes, definitely. Because we want to do a deployment on a server on the platform so today we do it whenever we wanted. Unknown 35:53 And it was on the, on the iOS store. Unknown 35:55 And we have to go through all the steps like this bet on whatever and then before it is released it takes 24 to 48 hours. Yeah, that's the difference of correctness for the non functional requirements like performance speed caches etc. play a different role for White House, than they do for moments of live apps. Unknown 36:22 Performance know both. If the performance is not good. Unknown 36:28 Whether it's in the web platform and are on the mobile app. Unknown 36:34 Can we have an issue about there's no different than it is now. I don't think so. Unknown 36:39 The customer can both, so I'm going to give you the kind of answers for this questions. Unknown 36:45 The guys which happened yesterday they said, when you're using a web application. And if it is low, people usually think that it is a browser that makes it slow. Unknown 36:56 So they kind of assume it. But when it comes to mobile apps terroristic notices developers fault. They had to make it fast. Unknown 37:07 So do you observe anything like that. No. When, when our users see, we have an issue with that beautiful, you know, one of the major views on our platform on the drugs, and he was slow. There was a database query issue. Unknown 37:25 Now they don't like it at all now, that just called us that or did not call, do not say that surprise you know, Nicholas. Now, I can. Unknown 37:33 OK, I can confirm that no good. Unknown 37:39 The way to get the requirements, does it differ from my apps, then you know, Unknown 37:47 what are the biggest challenges for building requirements when it comes to mobile apps. Unknown 37:52 The challenges. Unknown 38:01 What we have is that the users. Unknown 38:07 Do you uses of the of the of the way we have. Unknown 38:13 This is a certain disease certain party. And, yeah, and they're not mobile and said like that. They're not mobile, and we get much more feedback from them. Unknown 38:25 But getting getting feedback from a from a user with that's much more efficient, and much more difficult. What I said is sometimes I see one of these guys on the road. Unknown 38:39 But, but it's different for me to catch them and to get to get the requirements from them much more different I get the requirements for them over their bosses who I was it some time. So it's like this Okay, so you will do not have access to the end users directly support to the end users of the mobile app. Thank you. Bye. More about that from yes but not today, that's an issue. Unknown 39:07 That's a really big issue, not from a requirement perspective but also from a marketing perspective it's, it's quite a difficult time to give you kind of hints which I heard from my previous interview. Unknown 39:21 Because we talked already about app stores. So it also happened quite multiple times that the app stores they change their policies. Unknown 39:32 That's why the things which were allowed before they were not allowed anymore. The kind of changes. Unknown 39:38 So they had to change things or redo the work one did it already on Yeah. Unknown 39:46 So, that's my plan so it is kind of one of the challenges for them. Unknown 39:52 For the developer site. Unknown 39:55 What happens in the last couple months was that some security changes were applied from a from a from Apple, and yet you then, then you have to do it for the next release. So this is kind of different, that is that is that correct yes, it's a third party like Apple or Google who tells us sometimes where do we have to do, what not to do any manner. Right. That's correct answer. And give some more examples here. When you are doing normal web development. You're just open to choose any technology want money when it comes to mobile number two companies, either apple or it's cool. Unknown 40:36 So whatever they decide to add a formal year development platform, you have more, more, more choice to say that the developers development platform itself. Unknown 40:52 Especially when you go to hybrid apps or html5 or whatever. Unknown 40:56 For some, within a certain range you can decided from your own identity for the deployment itself and of course if you only have two platforms. Unknown 41:06 We have to make sure that it works and then what we experience as well and I mean that's also part of your question is do we have lots of operating systems in place on all these devices and you get crazy. It's like testing, that's also very good challenge it even more challenging than using the browser. Right. Unknown 41:29 There it goes. So for the testing because you mentioned it, do you have testers within the team or do you outsource it. Now we don't outsource it we tested on our own. Unknown 41:38 Doing manually automatic automatic on data level we do it automatically on on user, user interface level two is manually manually. Unknown 41:50 Okay, we had several talks. Within the last couple of months to also read automatically on the UI level but it did not happen yet because of high effort needed. So Unknown 42:06 app stores like Google Play or Apple, Apple App Store. They had their own checks. Unknown 42:12 For example, this is not the case anymore but Google Play, they used to have a limit for maximum number of methods you can have it was like 60,000 metrics you cannot handle that. Okay. So did you ever encounter such problems. Or, for example, Apple has very strict guidelines about design. Unknown 42:34 So, did you ever face any challenges. Unknown 42:37 Yes. Unknown 42:39 Yes. Hold on rejected. Unknown 42:44 We got onto the issue, earlier when we manifested it internally. Then we saw that we have an issue, but you had to be really consciously make decisions because right away, data subjects. Yes Yes, exactly. And we tested internally so that we have issues because it's not covering the requirements of Apple, for example, it's not that we experienced it while deploying it on the platform we we experienced it. Unknown 43:13 When way better. So, you know, the decisions you make regarding requirements. We also depend on factors such as operating system versions mobile devices, different mobile devices, different screen sizes and so on external libraries versions. Yes, definitely. Unknown 43:38 Do you have any examples perhaps where your face the challenges. Unknown 43:46 Regarding different devices or different size of devices, and definitely it's in each and every screen, we had when you, you have to test it on our origin, most popular sizes. Unknown 44:03 And it's an incredible number of hours you can investor for testing. For instance, what heard about yesterday is usually not usually have this problem with iOS, with Apple iPhones, because they usually have a standard. But, Apple decided, or decided to go with the like the big screen to big screen Yep, and then you really have to add up to it might fast. Unknown 44:29 And we don't we don't. Maybe it's too easy over, over the user interface that we did not challenge and this this problems, but there's a difference between Apple and Android part, we see very, very, very different behaviors sometimes that's an example perhaps if you can drop down list for example talk to the doctor next step, or, or thing is, as I said before, we, our business use cases based on pictures as well. Unknown 45:03 So what we do is upload and show the thumbnail of the picture. Unknown 45:07 And the thumbnail, sometimes doesn't appear on the, on the Android so why does it appear like. And the second thing is a server fact facing is the, the center, the compression of pictures, the toughness differently on on both operating systems. These are examples we faced in the past month. Unknown 45:30 Do you consider the troubles that might be faced by special people such as old people, or nine people. Unknown 45:38 If you have such users, especially requirements for them. Yeah, yes definitely yes yes because we have some of our users are 50 and above or maybe 60 and above and that's what I said before it was very very easy to said we have a huge fan sites, full size, huge heavy similar the Spartans and worried. So you mean consciously you make decisions about yes definitely, definitely. It has to be wherever you listen to me, and also for people about 15. Unknown 46:15 Definitely. Unknown 46:18 Did you face any challenges such as the maximum app size. Unknown 46:24 When publishing. Unknown 46:26 Let me think. Unknown 46:28 I'm not a developer Peter. Let me think. It upsets No, No, we haven't. No, no, no. Unknown 46:37 So now the questions. This is more like like rapid fire somebody give you one keyword and you tell me if this particular thing is crucial for mobile app for consumption. Unknown 46:53 No, not that I know, what do we know somebody doesn't have nope it's basically like four Unknown 47:03 different mobile phones and operating system generations, that's challenging it's challenging challenging is too much libraries and divergence. No. No, you're not. No, so you don't use them, though. Okay. Unknown 47:17 Mobile Ads and revenue generation through mobile advertisements. Now, because we don't use it now. Unknown 47:27 user feedback on app stores or social media platforms. Unknown 47:33 Good question. Unknown 47:38 So do you receive that feedback on sometimes we receive and not enough. Unknown 47:42 But we receive sometimes, but I expect more. I'd like to have more so let's I'd like to react to it. Unknown 47:50 Yes we do. Yes, yes. So it is important for it yet but it will be much more important if I get more feedback from them yeah that's that's a little bit challenging I'd like to have more than we definitely get data privacy data privacy. Unknown 48:06 Yeah, it definitely has legal constraints. Unknown 48:13 Yeah, that's what we said before here that's that's an important point. Unknown 48:17 So for your revenue generation through your mobile app is not a requirement, I suppose. Unknown 48:23 Not because it's based on the platform itself and then for the mobile app. No, no. Unknown 48:28 So, these are the last two questions, and I just want you to reflect on these things. Unknown 48:33 What is your impression about hybrid applications. Hybrid applications. Unknown 48:39 Do you have any experience within the company. Unknown 48:43 Can you talk about it. Unknown 48:47 Let's do it like this, like, go and ask my colleague should give me give me one second, please. Yes. Unknown 48:56 But then, Unknown 49:14 this is Unknown 49:18 the second, Unknown 49:21 which is pretty repeat the question once again please. Yes, sure. So, you know hybrid apps. Yes. What is your impression about hybrid apps, good points backwards. Unknown 49:34 It depends. Unknown 49:38 Well, as long as the functionality is not too much tied to the, to the platform, the things running all then rather people that are the economical to build compared to native apps. Unknown 49:54 Not really, but what about performance nowadays is the newer devices, mobile devices especially it's not really do have any particular framework. Unknown 50:07 Well we are personally we are not building a production. Currently we are using summary for cross platform apps for the hybrid link so ironic. Unknown 50:20 No. okay. Unknown 50:23 Well, I noticed all about coding, find success for forget things right, like this is what we, what we have tried a couple of years ago at that time it before in terms of the factory. I didn't, good in certain instances, and not in other. As I said, when the functionality is not too much time to deal breaker systems running on didn't fit for for sort of business apps It's okay, right. So, once you have, well if you really need high performing things, okay, if you need to calculate in on the device itself, then it might be the best. Unknown 51:04 And then my next question is also a little bit related to that part is a question about progressive web apps. Unknown 51:11 Have you heard of those. I've heard of it but it seems broken we want to have somebody developing up there or is this like is talking. What was it called progressive progressive web apps to the idea of progressive web apps, it's like a normal web application corner website. But you can have an icon on your white phone. Unknown 51:37 And then it works. Okay, with with thinking about maybe doing just as interesting because that we had a discussion last time about how do you compare hundred apps with progressive web apps, which are better. In that case, Because what what what advantage you get with progressive web apps, is that you bypass app stores, the materials with. Unknown 52:02 So they work like mobile apps. And you don't have to depend on app stores to actually deploy your monitors locally. Unknown 52:11 This is where everything is this described where you get your sources so that it's actually a JavaScript thing. Unknown 52:19 But it doesn't run within the mobile device process it does, it does. It's just a URL that you send to the view towards the packaging kind of offline storage of the application so what we're doing is a cheetah the new Angular. Unknown 52:36 That would be an idea to just download it locally stored thing, and what it's not a big difference at the end of the day you need to connect to the server anyway so yeah it doesn't really matter whether you go via URL or feel angry that you need to call activity, but not the App Store itself but if you have a laptop just jobs locally, that doesn't lead can be offline thing for instance okay and it's very good. Yeah, some offline functionality will use the browser storage, or even access the device. Unknown 53:10 Couple things you can do it. Unknown 53:12 Yeah, yeah. Okay. Unknown 53:15 So if you do not have any native features like Canada. Unknown 53:19 Then you can have discussion about hybrid apps and apps that we had that discussion as well but because, as I said before, we use the camera defensively within our mobile app and that's what important function. Unknown 53:34 Spit on the questions. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks security Unknown 53:42 testing. This transcript was generated by https://otter.ai