Unknown 0:01 So let's first talk about a bit about you. So what is your current role in the company? And since Unknown 0:08 Well, Unknown 0:10 maybe Martinez, you first Unknown 0:13 saw my current role in the company, Unknown 0:22 we do have anything, Unknown 0:25 okay, let's say, but I have multiple roles, then also you can Unknown 0:31 do management and administration, but they are not my main focus Unknown 0:37 is more like Unknown 0:39 when we need to design we have a project to design the beginning the accident, I decide which one to use, and which design partners back then etc. This is my back my fabric back like, so. Unknown 0:53 It's like technical consultation. Unknown 0:55 Yeah, exactly. Like when there is something to implement, I really guide especially the people that are actually doing them a lot better all the time or full time here, I guide them or I see the with them and we will take this even further. Unknown 1:13 And so you talk to the customers as well. Unknown 1:16 I talked to the customer as well. In fact, what I tried to do is talk is not as much as giving them a spin up there, but I talked to the customer and they try to understand what they want, and then transmit the information for coding. Unknown 1:31 Okay, Unknown 1:32 this is actually why do you have any official like role which you say to people like team lead, take lead or project manager in Unknown 1:40 Indiana in definitely not even with the client. There is always the reference as the manager or the manager of the project, the focus on the communication Okay. And then internally we dispatch Unknown 1:52 correct How about you? Unknown 1:57 I suppose Unknown 1:57 your co founders sorry Unknown 1:59 yeah, I'm a co founder or so Unknown 2:00 we both co founders you also come here Unknown 2:05 matches Unknown 2:07 quite often the technical lead mucha Unknown 2:13 so me more in charge of the relation with the clients. So typically, I would get the phone call and try to understand the the problematic fixing meeting, do the first meetings, gather as many information as possible, talk with the guys and then define what do the next show you Unknown 2:36 organize a workshop for them to establish a bit more than needs, etc. Unknown 2:39 St. Louis, you read Unknown 2:41 already the estimate, Unknown 2:43 should we do Unknown 2:44 a preposition of this? So Unknown 2:48 the usual scenario would be that I mean, the first contact with the clients, okay. We, Unknown 2:55 quite often we go to people to the meetings, etc. But in general, and the first contact and then let's see, we could talk together he would take care of the the architecture and all the technical stuff can I know they can go stuff, but less than them, okay. And with time, I know less and less because you things go fast, and I cannot follow the industry 4.0 and you said Unknown 3:24 that because before the company, I was working at university, and I was a project manager and European projects. Okay, so already there and started coding lesson lesson now. Unknown 3:34 Okay, are you any one of your coding so far? I mean, I'm still coding. Yes. Okay. Unknown 3:43 Very, very basic things Unknown 3:45 accordingly, really, like trying to experiment and find new ways or even libraries Unknown 3:53 and stuff Unknown 3:56 like that, I need to do some developing of really what you will call equity jobs, like, okay, let's say mostly, or entity to try to find new way a new car, new new languages, Unknown 4:11 tries to enforce that we use the best practices again, testing now. Unknown 4:16 So how many years of experience you have with software and mobile development Unknown 4:21 since I'm right there. So I was coding before Android arrived. And that's when I read that either rational 1.5 I was calling. So more than anyone in the Unknown 4:33 last 10 years, I guess you can say Unknown 4:35 to school included in Unknown 4:37 Yeah, we're ready to university. I was for my PhD, I was coding meridian Android Unknown 4:44 in my Unknown 4:45 application, and how would you Unknown 4:49 would say Unknown 4:52 something like eight years, but looking Unknown 4:55 shifted Unknown 4:57 in the sense that Unknown 4:59 done in Unknown 5:00 engineering and engineering school, but then masterpiece in Computer Sciences University, the network to beat computer as an engineer, and then in 2014, 12, Unknown 5:11 I Unknown 5:16 kind of stopped, okay, okay, and how many years of experience you have with, let's say, gathering requirements. Unknown 5:26 So for me, Unknown 5:28 at least six, Unknown 5:29 six Unknown 5:31 years, but in two Unknown 5:39 weeks, because during my PhD, I was actually studying with some metal component to understand the needs of users. Unknown 5:50 So Unknown 5:51 these there where I started to read and try to Unknown 5:56 investigate this back. And for the one right switch to the company understood that is more complicated Unknown 6:06 environment is easier in the academy to invite people pay them something, Unknown 6:10 and maybe them test some Unknown 6:13 software, some imaginary prototype festival, and then find out techniques for doing this. But in reality here is much more complicated Unknown 6:22 than what you got 606 Unknown 6:26 bit more with six Unknown 6:27 plus the Unknown 6:28 same at university for European project, I used to go out to Seattle, the people who make them test some prototypes and see how we react to the movies for people Unknown 6:40 testing and all these things. And so this is one part Unknown 6:45 and also for these you can project you need to, you know, write a proposal to see what fits it's kind of user requirements, you have always these four packages that are dedicated. Unknown 6:56 So I would assume you both have competitions background, yes. So, you know, kind of, maybe the computer scientists, engineers, at least Unknown 7:05 he has a PhD. Unknown 7:07 Yeah, Unknown 7:08 that wouldn't really matter, because it's kind of false indication if you have a PhD in Unknown 7:13 reading audio Unknown 7:16 only people he Unknown 7:21 people in the in Unknown 7:24 this is a funny question. But so do you read any scientific publications, or if not scientific publications, but any online articles, blogs, etc, regarding your work, to keep yourself updated with the latest technological trends and so forth. Unknown 7:42 I do that whenever there is a challenge that we need to solve. I get information from Unknown 7:48 like, for example, Unknown 7:50 in the case of Android, I go to Google and the new stuff, I follow the conference, I watch the keynotes and the technical committee Unknown 7:58 will Dr. Conference on Unknown 8:01 the public when they announced the next funny things for taking picture Unknown 8:07 I do that whenever there is a problematic to solve. I'm not looking I'm not looking continually yet, because I cannot Yeah, now, and then there is no specific source of information, when I have a problem and search for it. I don't know, I need to introduce unit testing in our environment, I go ahead and search for the actual application, which will be done to be able to track it. Well, the calculator, all these things, because, again, it's testing. Unknown 8:39 Yeah. Unknown 8:40 So except for its resources in this way, this is my way of getting Unknown 8:48 technological aspect of the job. Unknown 8:52 I mean, I'm a very superficial level, say we use a framework and there is a new version with this feature that could be useful at some point, right? Yeah, maybe, you know, you can subscribe to Wired Magazine, of Unknown 9:03 course, deflected by new so that's mostly your source of information, new information, but not really going on for reading papers and so on. And for me, as for me, No, I mean, Unknown 9:15 I read that's the main source. And I'm not going to read scientific papers anymore. We did he Unknown 9:21 say, left academia. I know paper One reason is also because we don't have access. Unknown 9:27 Ah, ok. Unknown 9:29 I mean, the University you are granted, Unknown 9:32 he said, is granted that you have it's by Unknown 9:38 the editors are these things come from outside, and you have a Unknown 9:42 Yeah, exactly. Unknown 9:44 And see what point in time Unknown 9:46 Yeah, very good way to me, Unknown 9:51 and I think there is no specific needs to go that much in detail. You know, why am I Unknown 9:56 I'm asking this question is essentially so I see lot many papers published in certain conferences, like many tools, nobody knows about the students in the industry, at least No, more or Unknown 10:08 less, they are solid, like, one of these Unknown 10:11 tools Unknown 10:11 are advertising and solid as a service. We never we never came across Unknown 10:17 him. Yeah, exactly. I was in the VA with this barrier of Unknown 10:19 even if we are from academia, you have this barrier of Maine not able to read the paper can Unknown 10:27 you know, Unknown 10:27 but if we we would have the research project like real research projects, Unknown 10:33 probably we would need Unknown 10:35 we would approach the promising reflects as old as me in people Unknown 10:42 to get go and check the state of Unknown 10:45 the art and dig a little bit Unknown 10:48 whatever techniques we use to gather requirements were to do not and how did you learn Unknown 10:55 from clients from clients? Unknown 10:57 No, no, I mean, you're you're gathering requirements from clients or users your customers how did we learn Unknown 11:05 so Unknown 11:07 we can talk about the center the normal scenario I mean correct me if I'm wrong no matter what when we have a Unknown 11:13 client a client calls I'll say sire media doing the next snapshot. And then you need to Unknown 11:21 try to get you please this is literally the ass Unknown 11:26 and then it's very easy to use. Very like Unknown 11:30 talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, we provide our Unknown 11:34 first know this is this is the process. So what I'm asking is did we learn Unknown 11:39 Yes. How an hour we learn on the field on the video. Yes, we are now four years time and we Unknown 11:47 saw to experience Unknown 11:51 we lose a Unknown 11:53 lot of time and then a little bit the process and then yeah, you know, it's been for you to change. Unknown 11:59 But I didn't see any of you have heard of these techniques from somewhere, right. We have Unknown 12:03 some we have some Unknown 12:08 let's say Unknown 12:11 some theoretical background, what it means having Unknown 12:15 requirements Why is important Unknown 12:18 these days, we have also some indispensable capture from an abstract he spent it in different requirements to arrive the media we have some methods like Unknown 12:34 collecting requirement for end users before to develop accepted our own confirm that their needs are maybe meet with the requirement we have that they are very, very our top line. The other Unknown 12:46 scenario, Unknown 12:47 say yes, tonight. Unknown 12:48 But where we learned this from the university? Unknown 12:51 Yeah, it was nice at the university, the methods Unknown 12:54 and not nothing but in working at university has researcher but I didn't, I didn't learn following a course on the field. And as it was University, you have more time and get is not your money visiting. Right. You know, so you can spend more time with this. And then process we improve it. And we were still learning, Unknown 13:17 I think nowadays and Unknown 13:19 let's talk a bit about company. So how many employees do you have now? Unknown 13:24 Seven times seven? Five co founders and to Unknown 13:27 external. Unknown 13:29 Okay, Unknown 13:30 and what are the geographical markets? You target Unknown 13:36 specific as a French speaking part? I mean, we target do we targeted or Unknown 13:42 it's it has been saved on Unknown 13:44 our market is this Yes, we cannot say that we are targeting it Unknown 13:49 delivers. Unknown 13:50 Yeah. Unknown 13:51 And Unknown 13:52 do you have any other offices or this is Unknown 13:59 this is a bit hard question. But how many users do have on average for apps outlets? Let's put it away. So how many apps do you have? Unknown 14:10 so far? Did we Unknown 14:11 do for our clients? Or do we have Unknown 14:14 ourselves political clients or it's it we will not necessarily for clients, but it can also be your products which are in the market Unknown 14:25 never rich? Not really. So Unknown 14:30 roughly, at least. Yeah. Unknown 14:35 Which are being used by people. Unknown 14:36 That's, that's what I how Unknown 14:38 many people uses apps, mobile apps only, or web Unknown 14:43 web episode. So um, Unknown 14:46 so the first question is, how many mobile apps you have, which are Unknown 14:51 working Unknown 15:01 888 and Unknown 15:08 nine? Unknown 15:09 Yeah, okay. Unknown 15:11 And Unknown 15:12 are the public or other enterprise specific are the free Unknown 15:17 or they paid the old free partner at a paltry Unknown 15:23 capacity family? Some, some, some adequate sleep three Unknown 15:28 times. Okay. Yeah, they are available on App Stores? Unknown 15:32 Yes. Not, not all, Unknown 15:38 but not under our accounting is ok. Unknown 15:41 Ok. Ok. Ok. Unknown 15:44 And then, I mean, on average, how many users they have? Or if that's a difficult to answer, which has the least number of users? I mean, how many and which has the maximum number of users, Unknown 15:57 the users? Or Unknown 16:00 maybe you can say, the installs, how many installs? Okay, Unknown 16:04 so there are two, three most used more than thousand, more than thousand? Unknown 16:11 Yes, Unknown 16:15 essentially, Unknown 16:16 yes. And the least used, Unknown 16:22 which one is Unknown 16:30 installed in hundred us? It's another, it's Unknown 16:34 even less could be. I mean, Unknown 16:35 were there one day we have out there after 7000 actually lecturing user and user Unknown 16:45 where we have a lot less stolen? Not attention? Or Unknown 16:52 do you have any official language here within the company of communication? Unknown 16:58 We use Unknown 17:00 French and English French and we use to speak only English. But then none of speaking French guys captured from the French and now we Unknown 17:10 mostly speaking, so you're bilingual Modus. Unknown 17:12 Oh, yeah. All of us. But now, I would say it's mostly French cooking. Unknown 17:18 But you don't have any problem communicating in Unknown 17:22 English? Unknown 17:25 Do you will only mobile apps or outsource office and gentlemen Unknown 17:29 web webinar by Unknown 17:31 how is the distribution or the equal or what is more Unknown 17:37 the I would say the client part would be quite equal. But any mobile app needs is back in which is web based. Unknown 17:48 Yeah. So if you can click Unknown 17:50 the web stuff would be Unknown 17:54 twice as big, because when the light is required, that comes to administrate. Unknown 18:00 Yeah, Unknown 18:01 yeah. But for the front end side, at least it's equal, Unknown 18:04 I would say, approximately equal Unknown 18:07 and which platforms to support? And who takes the decision about the platforms Unknown 18:13 do we support or do we use to implement? Yeah, I mean, you implement Unknown 18:17 for iOS, Unknown 18:18 iOS, Android, Unknown 18:20 web fending for mobile, Unknown 18:22 not just mobile anymore. So I noted iOS, Android, and iOS. Unknown 18:26 We do either, but also Unknown 18:29 web Unknown 18:30 by women like me, Unknown 18:33 that will come to the very interesting Unknown 18:40 and who decides which platforms to use? Is it your decision? Or is it your customers decision Unknown 18:45 is we are truly always propose alternative to the client also, based on the economical position. And then, but we always only offer Unknown 19:00 what is technically feasible, exactly. Okay. And then the client takes the decision if we offer multiple platform for maybe depending on this economical possibility is to develop their IP for to Glasgow, only for one or two, but I agree. Unknown 19:20 Okay. And what is your experience so far? What is more, more used iOS or Android? Or is it equal equal with the kitchen? Unknown 19:29 I mean, I would say, for one aptitude to be a success, it must be available on both Unknown 19:36 look at me this I got in my previous interviews, different answers. So the first company they do exclusively hybrid applications. Unknown 19:44 And he said, he has more iOS customers and customers. Yeah, yeah, so they prefer iOS more. The last company yesterday, which I interviewed, they said, No, Android is getting more popular for them. Unknown 19:57 So it's different. If you Unknown 19:59 ask us Unknown 20:01 on which iOS or Android it's more downloaded by users. Or if you ask us what our clients need, Unknown 20:10 you know, you can tell me both numbers Unknown 20:12 state, our client always needs to be available on both. Okay, now, say, depending on the on the app and customer, Unknown 20:24 customer, base geographical situation, it changes changes from Switzerland, I would say it's a bit more iOS, Unknown 20:31 iOS, Geneva, for example, Unknown 20:35 and also the area and then if you Unknown 20:37 go to a dear friend, you will have more Unknown 20:41 people to Unknown 20:43 actually go to the design and we'll have more as you know, yeah, Unknown 20:49 yeah. On your product oriented company, product based or service based service services to shift Unknown 20:57 shifting, Unknown 20:58 okay. I mean, we are starting to Unknown 21:03 their product. Okay. Unknown 21:09 How do the teams in your company look like? So other dedicated teams, but different roles like developers, testers, deployments, and who which was to have your dignity Unknown 21:23 also, how big are the keys? Unknown 21:27 So I think there are no specific roles in terms of the fact that there is always a project manager that has the control of the origin decline communication, but then there is a development team that usually doesn't go more than three personalities a lot more than three Yeah, two, three person then we have now recently bigger project that are getting us to four or five, like almost everyone. Okay. Unknown 21:56 Yeah. And do you have dedicated testers Unknown 22:00 don't know, the thing is that we we development as each one has its own responsibility Unknown 22:07 to do the foreign food. Okay. Unknown 22:11 Do you have any designers Unknown 22:12 were part of bad news. Unknown 22:14 So you outsource the work? So you also Unknown 22:18 Yeah, Unknown 22:19 okay. But Unknown 22:24 always with the same partners, we have a few designer partners, depending on the project, the to the mockups, design, and we integrated design Unknown 22:34 talking, but we don't have any artistic spirit Unknown 22:37 here. Okay. Unknown 22:40 So the teams I think, the, Unknown 22:42 let's say, Unknown 22:44 the teams are on, let's say, four to five people, four to six people, Unknown 22:47 I guess, right, Unknown 22:48 in a team, depending on the project, but it is there will be four people. Unknown 22:56 So this question was, yeah, so how many teams on how many people what to do is to Unknown 23:01 have, so this is like, project manager, but you have developers and you outsource the and I would assume that for each project, depending on the size of the you had at least four people, or more than that, I would say Unknown 23:15 at least Unknown 23:16 three, at least three, because we have also smaller projects Unknown 23:22 that doesn't require more than this web based projects, usually to be less than a mobile app, because Unknown 23:29 Okay, Unknown 23:30 three to six, I would say Unknown 23:34 this already covered, which which we have Unknown 23:38 in which phases of the project are your customers involved? Unknown 23:47 I thought Unknown 23:47 that the beginning I mean, very, very, very much at the beginning, which we need to understand what they want, Unknown 23:55 then Unknown 23:58 they are solicited several times during the development that's when we have interaction that they can Unknown 24:05 take uncheck we don't deliver on the end Unknown 24:09 we have Sprint's Unknown 24:10 Yeah, can you kind of not formalized bands like we try to define some milestones and to publish some review of the application for the client to test Unknown 24:25 for this question as well. I got totally different answers. So five first interview, he said, they don't like to involve customers at all just in the beginning. Because what they realize is Unknown 24:37 customers just cannot stop sharing ideas. So they say, Okay, this is what you will get, they build it, they show it of alpha release, then have some hot fixes, then they have beta release hot fixes, and that's all so they don't like to involve customer during the development period as such, Unknown 25:00 whereas yesterday, he said, No, they are involved always, they have to be that Unknown 25:05 we are more on this side. Yeah, they are always Unknown 25:10 so it's good to have customer always. Unknown 25:13 So we are trying just to formalize more people disagree land that they are more wisdom immediate, or they see some changes that are constant Unknown 25:24 the first guy is is right, in the sense that if you involve them, you don't Unknown 25:30 put the frame, you know, Unknown 25:32 around the CBD they have then it's endless. Yeah, exactly. They always come back and stuff. Unknown 25:40 But we believe to be Unknown 25:43 that it's very important for us to stay close to our clients. Otherwise, you can outsource development to any other country. proximity with our clients for Unknown 25:51 us, is very important. Okay, Unknown 25:56 now to Unknown 25:57 the very complicated stuff to show when you show in the login stuff Unknown 26:04 is that to make them understand that they say, don't focus on the design, focus on the feature? Does it do what you want to try? The client will always say, How can we have the Muslim Derek and we have you? No, no, no, no, don't focus on the design mistakes, we have the time and we're still learning on how to Unknown 26:23 eat club level. Unknown 26:24 So there is no silver bullet here. So you learn through experience after Unknown 26:31 Do you Unknown 26:31 believe that and just to add exchange a lot based on the plane? Yeah, sometimes wants to be very involved. Some don't Unknown 26:41 some play the game honestly so Unknown 26:48 much they can out of the context of work. Unknown 26:52 But I would say once we set clear boundaries, if he's boundaries with returning times, it works very well in the trust the trust is there in this case he needs to do okay. Unknown 27:04 Do you believe that if your client has some expertise with software development or mobile development? Does it influence your work in a good or bad way? Unknown 27:15 Question? Unknown 27:21 I think Unknown 27:21 most of the times clients really do not have any background or experience, Unknown 27:30 it can influence Unknown 27:32 it happen if the person maybe has some role of project managing, etc, then tries to get this process as a client, and then us what to do from outside, which is not always the ultimate events as Unknown 27:51 we need to manage his expectation and Unknown 27:55 cities. See in a notice if they have it Unknown 28:00 more bad than good? Yeah, okay. I think this However, sometimes the communication is a bit easier. Unknown 28:12 But sometimes, I mean, people that think they know, technology, things don't really, or really any more get things complicated because they think, and they put you know these buzzwords here and there and why don't we do this, why don't we do Unknown 28:29 this is Unknown 28:29 our job. We know why we don't do this. And then you have to explain. So again, it depends on people. But I would say it's a more in a negative thing in our experience. Unknown 28:40 next couple of questions are about security and data privacy, and those issues. But I think we will come back to that later. Because they are a bit Unknown 28:50 of bit for some indecision, Unknown 28:58 let's talk about the topic nominated the court of it. So how does the process of requirements gathering look like in your company, right from the customer approaches you until you Unknown 29:12 kind of Unknown 29:13 different depends on the companies as well, how they proceed. But until you have your first release Unknown 29:21 various to direction, what are the important milestones in that process, Unknown 29:25 there's Unknown 29:27 two use cases I would say one use cases that Unknown 29:31 because the has an idea Unknown 29:35 and the other use cases that the customer has, Unknown 29:41 like a great establish what he wants and already brought some kind of Unknown 29:46 specific interface for digital currencies Unknown 29:48 to that that does happen, Unknown 29:50 just cooking, we had projects but with the client hired someone to create this specs, and then they don't like us to implement implement, this is not our favorite part, because we like to conception, correct. And Unknown 30:05 now for those that kind of the project and very precise, Unknown 30:08 yeah, and it's Unknown 30:10 you go, okay, maybe also faster, Unknown 30:14 I mean, they, they, in terms of time and resources to maybe not because they will be here, but the more precise and less problematic on them Unknown 30:26 understanding and conceptual point of view. Unknown 30:30 So on the what's to be done, and what has been done was it like the thought, Unknown 30:35 etc, it's all written down. So we know you say these video. Unknown 30:40 But now for gathering the user requirement, which is, I think the other interesting Unknown 30:48 and now we're doing workshops, okay, Unknown 30:53 to establish the user journey, the wire frames the prototype, not all the clients wants to pay for this. But let's say for us, we try to push them to take the small package that will at least give them for a very fraction of the price of the development, give them already clear view of user journey wireframe prototype, we can also test the prototype with the users. And so if they take these kind of workshops, then it's pretty clear and pretty easy. Okay, because we define it together. And token, you know, I mean, the user journey, the white Unknown 31:34 almost pre designing the screenings, you know, so you have all the features that are there, then it's just a matter of Unknown 31:42 putting Unknown 31:44 it at the end result that we want to be able to start to develop, Unknown 31:49 if the they don't want is more problematic. If they are the end user of the application, our client is actually then use it, he knows where he wants is easier if they are imagining the service for their own client is very, very young. Because we also tried to make them Unknown 32:11 like think about what they have in mind and actually tied to destiny then define us and we like to consume them and say, OK, you are thinking that this can be good, but you don't know maybe before to develop different to test them and these workshops are in I was painting design. And likely the idea is like to empower our clients to be able to prototype and test we, their end user that he has the application before leaving to start to lose this specification and requirements and then Unknown 32:50 develop looking Unknown 32:52 so your main sources, workshops, I suppose how long these Unknown 32:55 workshops usually take, Unknown 32:57 how much does Unknown 33:02 main sources Unknown 33:04 I would not say that the main sources is the workshop, that's what we want is that the main source becomes the workshop, okay, booking in reality tells us Unknown 33:16 in this because it depending on the client in front of you, we can be someone that is like investing his own money and we need people with this kind of client is much more difficult to make them understand that they invest a little bit more money at the beginning before to actually start developing is better because they're going to factor is very cost more so is tend to be difficult, because they want to actually Unknown 33:43 go into the application Unknown 33:45 instead, if we work with companies that wants to develop some application, etc. for them is easier. That is you have to tell them to do first baby step one is a workshop. And Unknown 34:01 so Unknown 34:02 I would say when they're less emotionally emotionally engaged to because the emotions are is a really important thing for I mean, the company segment they have almost no emotional it's practical needs Unknown 34:17 managers, I bought this new this new and they may be in the meeting went to to care about because they just Unknown 34:23 execute Unknown 34:25 a guy that wants to create these stacked up is up to make the world a better place. He has emotion. Yeah, baby. So sometimes through these workshops, we shifted a little bit because technically, this is not feasible. Yeah, so you have these two different registers, Unknown 34:43 and what is usually the outcome of workshops. So Unknown 34:44 you already have of product vision, wire frames, mockups, and you just send start developing. Unknown 34:50 Yeah, basically, there is a five days intensive week of design in which at the end, you have a prototype and you executed already tested with the end user, you know, what are the positive point what needs to be improved, and you haven't already like me, why same and then it's basically like a interactivity that trap the customer cannot really kind of smoke test, what is going to be the finance system, Unknown 35:18 it will be a corporate, for example, if you drive some stuff on property here, they go there and understand the process. Unknown 35:23 So you said it takes about five weeks, five days, if you want, we can send you the Unknown 35:29 sure the document Unknown 35:31 Yeah, that talks about the sprint time Unknown 35:32 for one question. I mean, now I just remember because you said to so how long typically a project take how many months or like, on average on the least, and most Unknown 35:49 wanted to see what Unknown 35:53 I mean, the big one Unknown 35:57 for verifying the direction Unknown 35:59 because they never Unknown 36:01 stopped to Unknown 36:03 blessing our plan for everyone was ready to the new new the project was a nigga from the beginning, I would say the division goes the first time, maybe six, seven months. Unknown 36:15 And then after Unknown 36:18 that, it there's no one to ones. Unknown 36:20 So at least they will take six to seven months. Most of the projects we Unknown 36:24 had shorter, shorter, that's Unknown 36:26 an average I would say this. Yeah. Okay. But minimum, I would say Unknown 36:31 four months. Yeah, Unknown 36:36 I Unknown 36:36 mean, in the sense, Unknown 36:37 and I mean, the project I mean, is once you start gathering requirements until you have your first release, Unknown 36:45 but some some took more than a year to Unknown 36:50 two huge things to the token. Unknown 36:55 So if you consider this requirements gathering, until you actually release the app hundred percent, what percent in terms of time and cost you would spend on gathering requirements, Unknown 37:12 on average, at least 5%, 10%, Unknown 37:20 we would like to spend more to spend more, because we understand that we understood with experience that up there at the end, there is always something that Unknown 37:35 is not really correct from the point of view of the client, or Unknown 37:42 really when the guy that they can can then understand the only when he actually his application is from Indiana until that point, we can ask him a question, the answer will be always pretty trivia for the for the customer for the client. And then when he has the app in front of him, Unknown 38:05 he understands that there's something that is not likely was imagining mean is is Unknown 38:11 like, even if we try to say it before, Unknown 38:13 yeah, even if there is such a relief or when you realize, okay, but we will suggest to simplify it or do something different at the end when they actually published application. And the first feedback very late too late Unknown 38:31 of the end user so themselves, Unknown 38:34 they understand that they could they could have tax maybe, you know, I don't know, just the onboarding procedure for their active they could replace the screen because people don't care about stuff like that. But even if you tell them or Unknown 38:49 we suggest Unknown 38:49 to not to Unknown 38:50 do that, they usually Unknown 38:53 so for example, this question. So this was one of the Unknown 38:58 one of the major problems which I, which I saw in the survey. So people even said many people actually said the clients are not willing to pay for Unknown 39:12 together is our problem is why we need to work is likely Unknown 39:14 we are going out creating formalizing these workshops on paper to try to sell them activity until now, it was through discussions and then some acceptance and now we try to gather more materials so that they accept and that they understand that it's not to take their money because we're going to take 5% of the full amount of the money now No, and the money you invest now in this executive, you invest 5% of Okay, let's say will cost you 100,000 the development of the app you invest 10, K and K now this is money and time we're going to spend anywhere in the thousand k whereas if we do it together, now, we can be extremely aligned on what to do and what not to do. And we can avoid the mistakes directly here. And if the typical example is its clients will snap to do X. And he says, Yeah, but the end user come in login to his credit card. And then he only has to click one button to by Unknown 40:21 putting the credit card now before saying anything might not know I do it all the time. I mean, now we used to with you, Unknown 40:29 you will not you will say yes, but good marketing. And Unknown 40:33 then you develop and then create an account again, need to put the credit card first. So kill it. And then if we need to re implement it in iOS, and Android is a 30 k more whereas if we do the first phase Unknown 40:49 prototype, you see this you test with 10 people on their mobile phones really literally put up on the screen, the guys would say I need to put my credit card and getting Unknown 40:59 directly UCSD for people that are new, that you can change the position of us live in the barrel been put it another way, in another place, if you need within the app and you're connected everything is I would cost you money that you could have just maybe. Unknown 41:14 So what usually clients are willing to pay for, for design Unknown 41:18 for development. Of course, what Unknown 41:21 design development Unknown 41:23 marketing, Unknown 41:25 they willing to pay for marketing. I mean, Unknown 41:29 if they know that they need to allocate budget for these activities, they will they they may be contained core of it like that, if they if they have the power to do that. So we say if the budget is 100,000, and the total about 100,000, and they added 10 unit that is 20,000 for marketing, 2030, 40,000 foot design, and then the rest you can use for development, they may adjust Unknown 41:54 the the media, Unknown 41:56 okay, they're going by really in the sense that we put the 20 k at the beginning to the end development. And then I will see what happened, Unknown 42:05 they will Unknown 42:06 just tell you, they will, I don't care about anything else. They're not even design. I mean, they will do themselves they are designed that we will tell you do this color here. There was this color here. And we Unknown 42:18 had some cases that it was exactly exactly this. But there was this feeling I was speaking about before the guy who was his own bakery, and you only had budget, he only put budget on development. Unknown 42:33 And he will say I had, Unknown 42:35 we cannot gather enough clients like this change that Unknown 42:41 at first we try to say no to a service, see what's good when you land. And maybe it's marketing, maybe it's designed, maybe it's not just us. Unknown 42:51 And it was so sure about doing some design changes on PowerPoint, again, is in sending a slider to do it like this. And they're very non professional way. So it's very different. Now, some other companies, they understand this, and they Okay, we trust you. So for now we have the code to do the spring design because he had huge things to do, we said that we had the screen design that are like JD Okay, so Unknown 43:18 we have a company company with some kind of budget and quality Unknown 43:25 management procedures. And add that you need to define the project into design. And Unknown 43:35 you can easily talk a proposal on the table with a guy next door comes we missing the idea some money, it just want to develop it has a wonderful night that a medical diagnosis his budget for make it into Unknown 43:54 a problem, Unknown 43:56 have you noticed from your customers that they face any problems during this process, Unknown 44:03 that it is very hard for them to do certain things, Unknown 44:08 it's very hard for them to Unknown 44:09 realize the amount of work there is behind the development. Unknown 44:13 Yeah, the development in fact phase in the requirements for any station, and etc, is something that if you are not a project manager, or something, even in another field, or like a Unknown 44:29 building on creating and doing paintings, Unknown 44:31 like architectural studies and stuff like that, Unknown 44:34 if you're not in these areas, they don't Unknown 44:40 come back to my example of payment system, they would say, we need to know that those excited and a payment system Unknown 44:49 which Unknown 44:51 split payment who pays to whoever, you know, we need to define all these to be able to estimate if it's one day, three days, 10 days, them it's very hard to understand when they ask an estimated we see later which one we don't know exactly how the money goes through the through the to the customer. Because we have quite often people that wants to know that those intermediary between a shop Unknown 45:17 in the customer know Unknown 45:19 this guy page, does it go to the shop, and then the shop Unknown 45:23 is like the Unknown 45:24 client or the client. I always speak to all these things. It's very hard for them to understand. Unknown 45:30 Okay, Unknown 45:31 yeah, payment is one example. The example Unknown 45:34 that we have, or we say, what are we coming back and we are no expert like Unknown 45:39 which Unknown 45:40 solution. The one thing is, we think this time is dangerous time depending on your business model. In fact, what is lacking from some people is really Unknown 45:49 not only Unknown 45:50 the requirement, but only to understand the Unknown 45:52 requirement is having a Unknown 45:54 clear to do Who am a customer in the application who is bringing the money is just there. Unknown 46:02 I mean, this business is a business model. Unknown 46:04 And some people come to us, they don't even have a clear business model. But they want to know, and they want the price Unknown 46:10 to do their business. But Unknown 46:13 know who is who have, you know, so we can implement it. And this Unknown 46:17 is quite complicated. How many, how many clients was stakeholders participate in this process Unknown 46:25 in your workshops or Unknown 46:27 ads per client? I mean, Unknown 46:31 many clients in the total Unknown 46:34 number, what I'm asking is for, if you have a project from a single client, Unknown 46:41 how many people that client or Yeah, I bought this idea of, what do you encourage? Unknown 46:49 Yeah, Unknown 46:50 when we do this, this pain, they were five, five days. So we designed the team from the company that is involved in the projects are usually five to seven people with different roles, Unknown 47:01 like, Unknown 47:02 depending on typically it's going to be the people that we use the system, also the CEO of the company, for example, that we pay for the system, and we need to many different people. Sometimes we have even the lawyer of the company that to check the data flow to for every day. Unknown 47:23 And so I'm asking this question is also Unknown 47:27 one of the major complaints was there just too many people involved in a project, what happens is when you have more people, they have different opinions, they have different ideas, it's really hard to finalize one thing also, it becomes hard to communicate. Some people like even some people like telephone calls, they're not comfortable with Skype, and so on. Also, interestingly, one guy yesterday said, they have a lot of respect for each other. So each one of them have ideas. And just because they respect each other, they are not really willing to say yes, yeah, Unknown 48:02 so just to be clear, five to seven is during the workshop we organize, okay. And because we need this amount of people, because we want these different ideas to to arise and to explode, then we can all focus on some specific good ideas, ideas, and everybody votes on the idea. So at the end of the workshop, they all participated to the final prototype. Unknown 48:32 Okay, so you think it's really an we start here, it's an explosion than focus on then another explosion, and then another focus with different case, which allows at the end to have something that's all the participants agree on, participate actively and voted for Unknown 48:49 my studies, we have one Unknown 48:52 representative Unknown 48:54 project manager, I'm usually the one that actually decided from the beginning they need such approach that we when we propose is we need to convince one person the one that is managing the project, and then he regarded within his colleagues for our for doing these activities. And then after we keep talking to him to progress and do the development Unknown 49:20 for a client will have mostly one point of contact. Unknown 49:23 Okay, well, Unknown 49:24 then, obviously, when we go to to physical reading, sometimes there are 234, because we need to do show the fiber from getting the most easy one on one, Unknown 49:35 how do you communicate with your clients? Is it by email, face to face, or Unknown 49:42 what looks Unknown 49:43 best from point of view of time efforts? Unknown 49:50 hard because I think even us internally, we have preferred Unknown 49:54 preference Unknown 49:56 for me, I like fun. Good, okay. Unknown 50:00 I mean, email is the base is the email, you always keep contact exchange. But if something is unclear, and in an email, I'm very keen to just pick up the phone called here's the thing in one minute. And that's me know, some other company what you think Unknown 50:19 I'm already made email. Yeah, so I decided whenever I want to answer whenever they can interrupt Unknown 50:25 me, just like so you don't face any problems with emails, I mean, you have to wait, there is this always delay and so on. Unknown 50:35 The delay is not a problem. I think Unknown 50:38 sometimes there is also misunderstandings. Unknown 50:40 That's for me the problem. And I'd rather mean, as I said, pick up the phone clarify things rather than spending half an hour trying to draft an email that fix everything. So that's making you more into putting things down. Unknown 51:00 Yeah, but I don't try. I don't want to get too much. But you don't communicate much now. Okay. I like to communicate when we are meeting point and glorify Him face to face that then I really engage in a conversation Unknown 51:20 who is allowed to talk to customers? Is it just you people, also developers, Unknown 51:25 because that's why you go to a different response for this question. So he said, We don't encourage that the developers talk to the customer, because it's quite distracting everyone, everyone, yes, if there are specific things, we also drive the client directly to the developer might be me, or the 1% decrease in developing normally, in the sense they have to focus on the calling, and so on. And they are just bombarded with questions. It's true, it's true. But let's say my my role here is, for example, Unknown 52:02 what they do is Unknown 52:04 they have a tech lead and they have developers and they have a project manager in a team. So if the project manager thinks that this question is not answerable by her or him, they usually ask the tech lead to talk because he has more insight. So that's what we do Unknown 52:21 now we do the same but Unknown 52:24 I think our answer is based in the sense that the techie change change you know sometimes even sandwiches an employee in most here the blubber, he takes the lead on some tasks. So if it's faster to make getting the phone or asking Unknown 52:43 for some, for some clients, especially, is particularly the younger one, because we have very young clients are. So we even let them access to the code base in the sense in the platform on which we use to develop, they can follow Unknown 52:57 our Unknown 52:59 organization, and etc. And also provide comments in there cooking and see where we are in the project by you see, so like this ticketing system that we use internally, we expose it to the client to the client. And they can also interact by providing their input from there, especially when we provide the Unknown 53:23 data, Unknown 53:25 Okay, tell us but not everyone, because we managed to put it in this Unknown 53:33 like system Unknown 53:35 is not yet the new beginning to understand how it works. And also, it's not like we choose depending on our interaction normally with the client, which one is more adapt for this because otherwise, you're disconnected the wrong grammar, by the way, Unknown 53:51 yeah, Unknown 53:53 30 tickets Unknown 53:54 in one in one hour to authenticate improvements, you know, that are they say, it's both within perfected improvement. And just the time you need to spend to read the mode here when our best Unknown 54:05 forgetting. So Unknown 54:10 who does user in market research? Is it your responsibility? Or is it client or It depends, Unknown 54:16 this is claimed responsibility, particularly that this is a requirement that we have before to participate to any our workshop Unknown 54:26 we will experience we saw that if they the team of the client itself on the team, and that is in the client is no clear voice, then he was like, What is going to do and what are the requirements like what they want to solve? And the problem is, so like, when Unknown 54:48 we don't usually even start Unknown 54:53 they will shops or the discussion in Unknown 54:56 even for claims that don't want workshops? Quite often we ask that you do a market research If yes, can we have the results Unknown 55:04 to Unknown 55:06 get out of it. But we don't do these Unknown 55:09 booking parties? Unknown 55:11 I suppose your users are just in Switzerland, right? They're not really outside? Or do you have also globally our clients Unknown 55:19 are in Switzerland? Mostly. Now, they're usually not necessarily Unknown 55:25 worldwide? Unknown 55:27 Okay, Unknown 55:28 the question, the polling question was something like this. So how do you make decisions about these unknown users? And an idea is Unknown 55:39 a Japanese user would be much different than a Swiss user. And how would you assume things or, Unknown 55:46 you know, it may Unknown 55:48 not be true in your case. And the direct evidence is not really our Unknown 55:52 responsibility, right? We provide tools, we provide all the tools and advice and steps to our customers to get clear, Unknown 56:07 sometimes they have some have been with us to put changes than enough to address but we take them. So they they gave us Unknown 56:16 Do Unknown 56:16 you use analytics, Google Analytics. Unknown 56:19 So for example, again, we set up the analytics, give it to the client, and they should use it, whether Unknown 56:28 their software based on the analytics, but we cannot say, look, we see that there is a lot of Japanese people coming, you should pay us to change this in your app, if you want. I mean, so how this input should come from them. I mean, we're not responsible for the so that success Unknown 56:48 of their business is actually something that we don't offer, because it's not core business is Unknown 56:55 something that is Unknown 56:59 another job like Unknown 57:01 this, it's more of a marketing agency that can do this Unknown 57:05 kind of analysis, which was your targets? And Unknown 57:11 do you also collect non functional requirements from clients? Unknown 57:16 Okay, so non functional requirements Unknown 57:18 are more like the time with Unknown 57:22 the security Unknown 57:26 a now that there has been this new law from your duty or GDPR, they almost every client is concerned about if they come and they ask another question about then we got an act as kind of experts, that is Carlos the knows all the basics. So we can tell them the notification need to be a theme or different kind of things that are Unknown 57:55 always present in naps, Unknown 57:58 last quarter, given to us the data distinctive as a policy that they need to define themselves, we don't provide, but we are able to do these things for the non functional requirement is what we do, then we guarantee so more than they ever would be no sluggish. Unknown 58:17 So which one do you think are most important, which you really target like performance or whatever, security, performance, performance, performance Unknown 58:26 and security, we really use frameworks that are proven, nothing is secured under percent, when we don't take responsibility, usually about security, and you will, different ones, we use Unknown 58:42 everything in place to have certain security. But we never, I always say Unknown 58:50 engaging, Unknown 58:55 I would never Unknown 58:58 put the responsibility on our shoulder. And actually, Unknown 59:04 I mean, we have conduct conditions, when we do a project on development, we have our Unknown 59:10 come like the contract ended up taking responsibility Unknown 59:16 for the area of the party or in the software. Unknown 59:18 So we're not posting any service Unknown 59:21 again, Unknown 59:22 if there is a squared off in like, a for my records to practice. Unknown 59:27 Oh, do you prototype Unknown 59:32 prototype using envision or stuff like this? Yeah, Unknown 59:38 so conservatives, how often how extensive Unknown 59:42 and is always, when we do this Unknown 59:45 kind of this workshop output of the workshops is, there was a prototype, and we depending, depending on the project, we use a they're badly like the PowerPoints that are able to make a prototype interactive, Unknown 1:00:03 or I don't Unknown 1:00:04 mean today, the two way prototypes, or you use them afterwards, Unknown 1:00:09 we use them in sending Unknown 1:00:12 prototypes are also like, you just build something which looks like an app, yes, just to get an idea. And then you just treat them you don't use we use them to develop the app. Okay, so they become the part of the system, Unknown 1:00:23 okay, throw away partially after Unknown 1:00:27 our worship Unknown 1:00:28 make up the five days, we have feedback, some facts on Unknown 1:00:31 the prototype Unknown 1:00:32 can be if we can imagine that the new version is created from we throw away, yes, that is, Unknown 1:00:38 this is part of the development of this thing that we gather requirements, we do the prototype, like, depending on the project, we do a real data at the beach, they prototype, sometimes we, we drone paper on the whiteboard with the client, this is somehow a prototype, you see a new CD workflow or, and then we give these to the designers that they put nice shape and wording. LeBlanc. This becomes like a package, Unknown 1:01:13 you know, in Photoshop design thing with all the buttons. So Unknown 1:01:20 on the processes, we Unknown 1:01:21 wire frames that become prototype that become Unknown 1:01:25 development, we usually do this we do and we tell our clients to go and test before we actually give it up and they can still change on the software on the paper, Unknown 1:01:39 then I can tell you want to present Unknown 1:01:43 it does that even once you like so that we don't throw away because they normally Unknown 1:01:52 take the opportunity to throw it away. Once he's done is already Let's go there. Unknown 1:01:58 We had some situation when we present the design, I mean, we the designer team that we got the partnership with. And they come with us the client we presented design and people like, you know, they start to set up these like it more here. And they can promote their land and try to think, but could we and from this page, access these settings. And okay, yes, if you want this, that's good. We need to add it. And it's good that they see it at that moment. Unknown 1:02:30 But it's very few What about Minimum Viable products to your Unknown 1:02:36 target Jewish Unknown 1:02:36 right at the very beginning, this was our Unknown 1:02:40 point of start time to discuss today. That is better to her wisdom, Unknown 1:02:46 a tiny fraction, the main functionality of your system trillions and in case ECC to increase after Unknown 1:02:57 a non to shift the direction but is this thing don't stick to anyone. If you Unknown 1:03:06 always end up with the first person. Unknown 1:03:08 I mean, you cannot tell you a secret from the explanation. You actually want a car you start with a skateboarder. Only this kind of a couple blogs. Explain this era senior etc. So it's better if you started with a deck that you Yes, yes, yes. Yes. And then when you provide a first prototype, or a first view of what is the system will do they tell you? Oh, no, no, but I don't know. Nice. This is nice. But they want everything they want the car because it Unknown 1:03:38 is almost impossible to. So this is also the criticized which I heard a lot that usually when you build in with these Unknown 1:03:47 clients start thinking this is the final product already. Yes. And they are so discouraged if it is if it doesn't work the way they want Unknown 1:03:54 to complete that is not working Unknown 1:03:56 they we say we cannot get more customers. But it's because we didn't add the chat that they said they wanted to in the ability we remove the chat because this is not the main feature of your app, your IPS to book a hotel. And they will quite fast say, but now we need to add the text that people will accept it. So in the end, they want the free thing and they Unknown 1:04:18 publish the app and efficient market Orly when they have the fully do they do that it will be even if we work Unknown 1:04:27 a lot in the requirement phase Unknown 1:04:30 to reduce the scope and keep it Unknown 1:04:32 simple to reduce also the cost. And yet they make us adding stuff. So we have playing with the workshops now to through a procedure a work together to arrive to Unknown 1:04:47 them Unknown 1:04:48 proposing we with activities. In fact, we are able to the point in which not everything can be in this planet. And so the media remains the output is the prototype in that this thing they can visualize and say, Okay, I understand that they went through several things. But let's start from this. And they are already projected. But if we do the MVP from the media and we develop, we they say yes, but they when they see the first version of the application, they don't publish the Unknown 1:05:24 I Unknown 1:05:24 totally agree we do the workshop. The big benefit is that they engage efforts and stuff. And so they realize how there is not so trivial and that's already doing an MVP if it's well thought we work in needs already complicated. Unknown 1:05:45 We only be these first feature, there was a Unknown 1:05:48 time when I was excited Unknown 1:05:49 to wording problem because we have for us prototype MVP, v1, v2 listening. But for some someone, you say we do a first version of your app, someone that is a it's a I do the first version of your app, you don't think the same know MVP, you don't think the same for some MVP is the view one or, you know, Unknown 1:06:12 there is like some kind of experiment that's never Squamish to European Judah. You've never even need to, she never showed this to end user is just to understand, you're able to develop this code now and everything before I can publish. Because Come on this the kind of need to ensure that they are afraid of they don't have these Unknown 1:06:33 prototypes, a much better than me piece, right. Unknown 1:06:36 But for me, for studies before know it's before developing anything. Unknown 1:06:41 So I think Unknown 1:06:42 it's much better because it's more flexible and easy to change. Unknown 1:06:45 And you can show me the results. Unknown 1:06:48 But Unknown 1:06:49 from prototype to MVP, it's already days and days of work, which means thousand and outcomes. Unknown 1:06:57 And then they have this prototype you cannot release to plan but then to show it to their potential users various good if the, you know, you only have one chance, if they see your at once and install it and they don't like it that they deleted, they will never install it again, like Unknown 1:07:14 in their customer, which Unknown 1:07:15 is Unknown 1:07:16 very not true. Is it economical to build prototypes to have budget for that Unknown 1:07:23 we can actually be the workshops. Unknown 1:07:26 So despite the companies, Unknown 1:07:28 they at the end of the procedure, they have an initial phase, and they are always commands to improve themselves and prototype. And then they are satisfied because they learn how to test the prototype one of them land we teach, have to do users like interviews, and they are able to collect feedback, because they do one session with us and mix it up. And they are able to then easy because it's a tool like PowerPoint, etc. to change and then come to us after Yeah, to propose. So the prototype is, but this you can always in the same problem. If you took the company, they understand the environment, if you talk to the best thing to do, and just use apps in the app store as fast as he can. He's happy to have a Unknown 1:08:13 prototype to see, Unknown 1:08:14 Wow, nice, I can do this. But then you need to do it, Unknown 1:08:20 do it, do others. Now we have this prototype. Nice, give me a quote about this, you give it that you haven't defined it up. And then they started to come back with the order Unknown 1:08:33 to Unknown 1:08:34 give you a quote for the prototype. And also add this in this in this in this that we need story for the Indians. Unknown 1:08:44 Okay, so do you know any mobile tools, mobile app server or any features of mobile devices, which you can use to gather requirements, for instance, Unknown 1:08:57 cameras and so on? Unknown 1:09:01 No question. I mean, we had can taste Unknown 1:09:06 as good as my Mustang is because I have seen a couple of publications in from last couple of years where they publish apps, researchers on mobile apps for candy requirements are managing them and so on. But I don't think they are use Unknown 1:09:22 some other Unknown 1:09:24 know. So this Unknown 1:09:26 usually people in industry do not know what people Unknown 1:09:29 are. So I think Unknown 1:09:31 it's a very broad Unknown 1:09:34 See, I mean, Unknown 1:09:35 gathering requirements from one client to another can change a lot. Unknown 1:09:40 For example, I've seen apps or tools proposed in papers analyst, which are to build scenarios to build scenarios also collaboratively and so on. But I'm not sure if they are really promoted into industry people Unknown 1:09:55 now, because so the usability is a different issue. Unknown 1:09:59 People don't want to Unknown 1:10:03 do you do your customers Unknown 1:10:03 have any concerns about a specific voice, Unknown 1:10:11 a operating system that they want, Unknown 1:10:13 or Okay, I want Android app or I want, I always have Unknown 1:10:21 some will, some won't. Unknown 1:10:23 So there are some very conscious about their market situation. So they say, I want to these kind of path, I want to do it for the ecosystem. I know that there are more or even Susan so let's start with the iOS are Unknown 1:10:42 ending up there it was, there was there are some that comes and say, Unknown 1:10:47 for these up to work. And if all the market of Android on the mandatory is Unknown 1:10:51 certainly for some reason, Unknown 1:10:53 okay. Unknown 1:10:55 Sometimes it's just because they imagine, Unknown 1:10:57 yeah, Unknown 1:10:58 sometimes it's true. So for them to prove, you know, when you need to put people into your unique relation you need as many years if you only have iPhone user, then they will ask you work. And we become friends on this happened, you say not have an Android phone it Unknown 1:11:17 sometimes they need both. Sometimes, again, for as you said, For economical reason. Reason. Some of them understand that if you want a native development, it's going to be Unknown 1:11:28 almost twice Unknown 1:11:29 as expensive, more expensive. So let's start with Unknown 1:11:32 iOS Unknown 1:11:34 and this choice to usually with that, then Unknown 1:11:37 check your customer base critical customer base, which kind of given the profiles that you're targeting, which kind of is just operating system they use mostly for some sort of your data from stuff in Africa. Unknown 1:11:53 So because you mentioned economically, so do you charge separately for iOS and for Android? Unknown 1:12:01 How Unknown 1:12:01 does that is that what you mean? That all depends when you're developing a hybrid app with identity Unknown 1:12:07 I need is one Unknown 1:12:09 different story. Unknown 1:12:10 Yeah, I like to work Unknown 1:12:13 maybe the designer, Unknown 1:12:15 what I'm asking is you would charge differently for and I did have the native app. Unknown 1:12:20 Okay, I have different questions or hybrid apps afterwards. But this is something interesting, Unknown 1:12:27 which tools we use internally for Unknown 1:12:31 anything requirements gathering or management Unknown 1:12:36 communication, which you which do we use now changes through Unknown 1:12:43 seven on button. We never find the at the end we end up receiving document in Unknown 1:12:50 judo. Judo, Judo, Unknown 1:12:53 Google Docs, Google Docs on your customers. Okay with that, because Unknown 1:12:57 how do you plan data? I think, again, comes to privacy issue. Right? Well, Unknown 1:13:01 it Unknown 1:13:04 depends which document because contractual we put on the scenery Unknown 1:13:12 scenery here, but then it working document it's on the Google Doc, Unknown 1:13:15 mostly Unknown 1:13:17 due to use anything for project management Unknown 1:13:19 like JIRA or Unknown 1:13:21 our first managed cloud. We have the shuttle tracker, this for the devil of the Empire. And then base camp Unknown 1:13:30 put in Unknown 1:13:32 that picture. Unknown 1:13:35 We tried to Unknown 1:13:37 train Unknown 1:13:40 you to free internal slack for Unknown 1:13:43 companies like the best this also depends. Muslim decline. Some band come with slack. And they say we want to communicate with Unknown 1:13:53 the oak using slack. Unknown 1:13:54 Yeah, exactly. proposal Actually, we lead with this Unknown 1:13:58 summary. Unknown 1:14:01 We don't propose like I would say in general if they have like, is it us? Like yes okay, we can go China Unknown 1:14:09 with clients Unknown 1:14:09 that are not so Unknown 1:14:10 technological Unknown 1:14:14 mostly emails and Unknown 1:14:18 on the tab on the ticket tracking system Unknown 1:14:26 let's come back to the first few parts security and those things Unknown 1:14:30 have you ever encountered any security breach Unknown 1:14:37 so have the third one is down some time that came up Unknown 1:14:42 to us, you know, Unknown 1:14:43 on our development so the ones Unknown 1:14:48 can you can attack in our development? Unknown 1:14:51 Yeah, okay. And what are the consequences? Unknown 1:14:55 Yes, could be going Unknown 1:14:58 Yes. For 1.6 Unknown 1:15:01 nothing because we again we put it back to the back of Unknown 1:15:05 the Unknown 1:15:06 day before do you face any legal challenges Unknown 1:15:10 did you face any legal challenges Unknown 1:15:14 you know, Unknown 1:15:15 we we have Unknown 1:15:18 the lawyer drafted Unknown 1:15:19 you know that conditions Unknown 1:15:24 we Unknown 1:15:24 do have legal experts in the team motto of outsource the Unknown 1:15:27 warriors Unknown 1:15:31 and do copyright anything Peyton Peyton tries anything, Unknown 1:15:35 any of your products? Unknown 1:15:37 Yeah, you know, we don't have commercialized product yet. Unknown 1:15:42 So for now, and we've Unknown 1:15:44 done usually don't own Unknown 1:15:51 but we don't own the content is of the application of our clients. Unknown 1:15:56 So you don't own the code, Unknown 1:15:58 we always we always give the code in the client wants it, Unknown 1:16:04 do Unknown 1:16:04 you collect these requirements for privacy from the customer? Do you ask them explicitly what should be private, Unknown 1:16:16 let's say that we don't focus on Unknown 1:16:18 that, that we Unknown 1:16:21 we know which are the basics there and etc. So we immediately integrate these Unknown 1:16:29 in the in Unknown 1:16:31 the user flow particularly there are for example notification and stuff like that we don't enable them automatically wasting time these aspects if you install Google and basically tell the client that they need to provide Unknown 1:16:44 in the privacy policy Unknown 1:16:46 to attendees but usually is the client job to I mean, they can ask us every library to use and reuse by the Unknown 1:16:59 how much they are aware of these things Unknown 1:17:03 not much not much. How much they are aware you say yeah GDPR now yes but Unknown 1:17:08 GDPR is about Unknown 1:17:12 are they Unknown 1:17:13 worried that we might use in their system okay Unknown 1:17:19 we start now but equally to tell them that if we Unknown 1:17:25 for example if you use a violation of Google to do they can they can attend them in the data is managed by Google and need to account etc If you want to personalize completely solution we can do it if you have mainland Chinese data initiative so this kind of thing we Unknown 1:17:47 so we are done with the first two parts to you want to take a break Unknown 1:17:50 I need to move his bathroom. Yeah, Unknown 1:17:52 we can take a break. This transcript was generated by https://otter.ai