Unknown 0:03 It might be boring in between because a lot of questions i saw i looked all the questions on the looks okay. I mean, so just about you. Yeah. So what's the intro and since then what you do exactly Unknown 0:22 my personal story. It is basically I started this software developer. Unknown 0:29 I started in a very young age or so with all 13 years to, you know, develop the things on my own, then start to get some, you know, like some projects in there did like some fancy stuff with a couple of people I met the internet and then it was clear for me to don't go into it. Then with years. I started to work in idea that this apprenticeship this concept we have only three select as a software developer during these last or District Four years I was happy to work in a company which was very on a technical level working in a very high, high quality and I learned a lot of things there. Unknown 1:16 And then I continued to work in a couple of different companies, the following years did also the university. The one in return for the most Colton English. The University of Applied Sciences. Yeah, so probably for social exactly did there in part time for years, the ID computer science. Unknown 1:43 Yeah. So basically, this was the way and then I stopped a couple of years ago to deal with my own company initially I was alone, but I started to like rethink a couple of things and started to like work more with with people and this is how I got into this situation I'm right. So now you see you. Unknown 2:04 Yeah, I mean, you see yourself very fancy because you imagine somebody like you know having like 500 people are more like like to call myself like the, Unknown 2:17 you know, because I don't do just see your work. Also, and also heavily involved in the project still because I amount of project managers that I can put away everything but so you do development also development not I stopped that like three years ago. Okay, what I do on company structures in three layers we have like the top layer which is basically the we will talk about it afterwards because I have okay so you are basically more into talking to customers Unknown 2:50 that I know is essential that the name of your company separate invoices roles. Okay. And right now I have different roles assigned to myself wearing where I'm planning to like to get rid of some of those, of course, the future but right now it's a bit hard because I'm liking the manpower to do so look is always still have a couple of customer projects managing myself but the development is almost certainly done with our other people. Unknown 3:22 So how many years of experience you have in software development in general I mean in like professional software development to be 10 years 10 years 10 years straight and how many experience you have, especially in a dissertation for mobile apps or software apps and software in general Unknown 3:46 that you're doing it actively elucidation How could we use a different word for that public gathering requirements basically talking to customers and under like the requirements engineering, you know exactly Unknown 4:04 it's very hard to say because usually you some companies, you're like, even if you're a normal software dev you're pushed into it right because that is a so it's very hard to to do like a hardcore but I think you can say that since I have my company started to work with other developers, you can say something like, maybe four years five maybe five years. So yes, because the company I worked before I also had to visit and let's see academic background so your computer scientists right learn computer science of the bedroom. And do you have any other background business or no no Washington's no business Unknown 4:47 do you read any academic publications related to your work to just keep your Academy on vacation is not what I do is a plan like this is also why after the Wednesday at all. I played like at least two hours per week to freedom of modern technology to try it all things like that. But those are not like academic publications are more like you know those volume of yeah of course I do have to you have to because there are so many changes and if I want to enforce a technical change within the company. I need to enforce it. I cannot expect me to have to develop was enforcing it because we have this top bottom structure getting Unknown 5:32 did you learn the things which you do especially not the development things the customer relations and this is interesting because I didn't learn it in the classical way I just was forced into it and then I had to somehow get used to it and I started to think of myself logical terms. Okay. How can I improve that. How is it, how am I able to improve it. So, in the future, we don't have like this bad situations where you have misunderstandings about the requirements Unknown 6:01 so you self taught learning by doing self taught and experience. Yeah, learning by doing good a bit about your company. Now how many employees. Do you have you know it's it's hard to say because we have a very Unknown 6:17 non common structure and we work Unknown 6:22 and this is what I wanted to tell you before we have like three layers and the top layers is the CEO, which does the company system. This is what I do in the middle layer of the project managers, which represent single projects. Okay, which are like the owners of products as well. And in the third layer, you have to developers and what they'll start to do a couple of years ago is I started to split out the third layer completely to external partners. Unknown 6:50 So what we do now we have a network of technicians. That's what we call them with the development. Unknown 6:58 So we have only the second and firstly or inhales the second layer right now we have three people and on the first layer we have like one person. So you want and you have project to project project exactly like this, but it looks like we have some changes there from personal changes. So this will change in the future and how many developers roughly 3030 Unknown 7:25 good Unknown 7:28 which markets to target geographical. Unknown 7:34 This is something we're trying to change what what was our main goal is to to target like the European market in general problem is there, you have to have like a base to enter the global market. You cannot go there with like little projects, you need to have like some some big things in the portfolio. And so we were busy to to concentrate on European manager to to to get like to get like a couple of projects in in the bigger terms and now we were able to do like three or four big projects in the last two years. So now we feel ready to like try to get into the bigger market looking but right now most of the projects, especially the smaller ones are you originally from in theory there right now but anything Unknown 8:24 really had we had, especially the beginning where the couple of projects in Germany, but that we are evaluating the German market right now there's somebody like consultant working on it to to evaluate how we can enter how the situation is in the German market and how we can enter because I think there is especially the bigger companies you have like Unknown 8:49 there are possibilities 20 this market as well. So yeah, do you have any the offices are not from this any other phenomenal. We know this is this is on your list Unknown 9:04 okay before this. So how many apps have you built so far. Unknown 9:09 Talk to to find what I think maybe we're talking about 5050 and those are mobile apps mobile apps. Yeah, but most of them are like what do you call them that price yeah yeah you know like what do you have like various processes within the company automated by a mobile Unknown 9:32 on the free or paid, sorry. Are they free apps obedience. No, I mean the also do we don't have any data will give you a new basically don't publish them on Google Play Store on App Store all those enterprise apps not they are usually only available for the employees. We have a couple of apps available, but those are those are in the that those play stores, but most of them are in the company or customer owns map stuff. Unknown 10:11 how many users therapy those gaps, we have we have one which is which is expected to have around 1000 1000 users. Yeah, just like a reflection back we did to complete the last year, last one half year we're in development and this top 100,000 Unknown 10:37 to a bit about your company's policies do enforce any specific language or is it English. The official language of the company on these initiatives because based on the fact that we have a lot of different deaths. They all have like different backgrounds need to have like one common language and we are happy to have for English and it was exactly works and you can expect developer always to speak English, something which is our life easier. Unknown 11:10 And I think you've been both right which are not just restricted to building mobile apps you also build software center. Yeah, we, we, what we do is also we built a web based software, but we're quite lucky that last couple of years, the technologies have merged more and more than you can with one particular skill set, you can target both platforms. But even with major focuses mobile apps are you know the thing was won by started I wanted to only target mobile apps but no like customer requirements changed a lot of cases where you also need to provide a web based so I decided to say okay let's let's do both, why not I mean you can you can they have a common language. So it's possible to let you go for mobile first mobile first. Unknown 12:05 Okay, which platforms to like Target almost exclusively iOS and Android on the mobile market. What I did a couple of years ago when I started the company. I wanted to target the windows form as well those before I don't remember the exact version where they were they tried to have like a unified experience across the normal windows on the phone. Yeah, so it was not Windows Phone seven but the one the successful I evaluated it, it seemed interested in everything that technology also feel that the problem there was, I said, Okay, I will wait a couple of months more to see if there is a trend going upwards, Unknown 12:49 which never happened. And then when I found out that will be the new CEO of Microsoft and check the liquid his background by solid will be for sure that you will move from away from from mobile apps or mobile platforms. Unknown 13:05 So, the decision was quite easy. So it's iOS and is it equal share or Unknown 13:12 No, it's not. This is funny. I mean, I think this this app we built this with the 100,000 users. This is used globally in every country possible and it gives us quite good statistics and have to say it's still interesting with iOS is still like the the dominant dominant which is really i mean i thought when you when you check the statistics. Normally you see a lot of more users use AdWords, but in our case it's really like a little bit more violent is Unknown 13:47 your company's product oriented or service service service your service we create products for customers basically like we have a non productive maintaining roughly how much time it takes for a single project with customers on it, on average, but the thing. I mean, Unknown 14:06 let's say two months, two months. Yeah, but this is like the the common case but we have also projects like the one which took like half a year, for example. Unknown 14:17 So let's say two to six months, I think, to give you average number. I think it will be more like two to four months before but these two to four months. What they include so they include like the finished product or the initial delivery. The initial delivery to the public. So, yes. Unknown 14:38 So you mean one two months you're able to gather the requirements develop and ship it yeah we're we're quite fast. This is one of our unique selling points, Unknown 14:53 maybe what I need to tell you, as well as we try to really enforce the Lean principles. Unknown 14:59 So the initial version is really the the like the fish for me if I to ship as fast as possible to have like a product which fulfills all leads, but not more yeah to to get like you know like the time to market right as fast as possible Unknown 15:19 developing teams Unknown 15:24 so I assume you each project has difficult. Yeah. What we do is each project we build for each project. The task force for we take from this 30 people and we take like depending on the requirements for example, you will have a map where you need a lot of security stuff relevant stuff. So why people which are from security macro need an app where you have like a lot of UI relevant work. So you take somebody who's strong with the front end work to mix them together into a task force this whole call them and they are obviously I think most of the teams are around for food. Yeah, this is like a number, which has identified itself, the last couple of years, which really works good in terms of communication and Unknown 16:11 speech. Unknown 16:13 I think we talked about this too which roles you have in a single team. So I think that developers, project managers right and they are a little bit more, we have we have also the coming of course project manager, which is like the essential then you have like the depths of the technician. So we call them this role, then you have also something called the deployment technician because it's something not every def can do like roll out there so they have stores and then you have also an additional role which is called Unknown 16:46 the q&a. Unknown 16:48 The q&a technician and so what they do is they do the code reviews but we start to also have that completed one no company to me also that we are right now, forcing it on complete dedicated company which only provides code reviews because this is something which really takes a lot of time. Unknown 17:10 Okay. Do we want to have one partner only available for for those kind of things with the short turnaround times Unknown 17:20 the new involve your customers into the coaching. Yeah, which phases. Unknown 17:31 We Unknown 17:34 call it the deeper than what we have. First is the requirements face so therefore they're heavily involved we get the requirements will create the concept of tweets sent to them review, things like that. So after we start with the project. So we do the bootstrapping of the projects to kick off the customer is like left alone for until we have the initial version we work with, we call them. So then you are developing you don't involve the customized such as little as possible. We have customers, which want to see the state. So we give them access to our con bond board musically, so they can see things, but it's like a very simplified version of the common board we have like an old tool which connects with our project management system and just takes as little information as possible to because it's in my experience is very dangerous to involve some customers too deep into project because then they start to, you know, like comfort themselves with a lot of details which still the processes. So yeah, we have like the start that we have that face and then we have the first review the way we call them the release stages with early stages. The first stage is to offer the we have the hot fixing phase where we do like fix the stuff the customer phone. Then we have the beta and then we have to release candidate and this is the I think on the border you involve the customers again to take a look at it know as little as possible as soon as possible. So we sent them a version, like, okay, here is your alpha version. Unknown 19:17 Please keep in mind that maybe this this this feature is not completely finished yet tests and send us the findings, then we get the findings and then we have the hot fixing face which leads for the beta version. Okay. and then after we do the same thing for the beat of the customer reviews it we do the hot fixes that we have the release candidate and this is the version which will go to pop into my open so I think you answered the next question. So if your client has some ideas. It can only influence the process. Unknown 19:50 So yeah, but we try to keep it as little as possible because we try to make it clear a look each additional idea in the later development part can lead to massive place right next few questions are about security but I'm going to skip it for now we'll come back to it later. Unknown 20:09 Those about security and like data protection and so on for legal things Unknown 20:15 coming back to a real questions now. So can you describe how the requirements, the system looks like yeah base of it is the requirements meeting, what we call supposed to customers basic basically the approach to it or yeah they contact us distorts already depending on what kind of customer we talking. He already has a very clear idea very clear idea, already we had a couple of cases where you have already approached by it, guys. So they already formulate like you know everything and I mean this is this is for us the best case but this is very wrong so usually what happens is we get the get approached that we were requirements meeting where the project manager sits with the lines and do not you, it's the project manager assigned to the project. It can be okay but can also be the project manager Unknown 21:16 for each project we have one representative within our company. This is the project manager so he will gather the requirements is like a workshop and what we try to do as early as possible is to split it into features the use cases because this is essential for all our following steps Unknown 21:36 and do you know any specific methods you use Unknown 21:40 that is sort of be the proper right now because each each project manager has his own way of doing so Unknown 21:48 for example what I do. Usually I start the meeting with some general questions like, please can you elaborate through idea and then I swapped to identify as early as possible. Like a couple of workflows within his idea within his idea, whatever. And then we start to go sequentially through them and during doing so I thought to write down the list of potential features like walk in walk out things like that and this will be the base for the use case diagrams later so you make use cases often yeah of course this is like the bass bass of all our following steps and when we do so we have what we call it the requirements package, depending on the type of project if it's a mobile app. It includes, for example, things like a mock ups like wireframe which will not have any UI style, but are just like Bernie roll the flow and Unknown 22:51 yeah, for example, mobile apps for web based apps. We use other approaches and then we send that to the customer for review. We will review like to use case because this is not this is only for us. He just reviews the visual stuff and and we make it clear. Look, this is one of the last points where you can give some input where you can give input which are fundamental which is up if you want to have an additional logging like a Facebook login week to say now. Later on we cannot provide you with that. And the next up is that the project manager generates from these use cases this list of features which features described in a technical way as like a story as a user, I want to have the ability to log out from the system. This is one feature and then you have like a table of flood of features. Unknown 23:43 This is the new start developing. Basically, I suppose. So what we do the basic as we approach the technicians. Okay, so they give us like an estimation of each feature because is each that has takes one feature and takes the responsibility of Unknown 24:10 replacing budget in terms of cost and time you would assigned to this requirements fees. Unknown 24:21 So let's say if your project is hundred percent like this. Okay, I would say we're talking about Unknown 24:32 maybe Unknown 24:35 1515 to 20, something like that. Greg will try to do it as detailed as possible to avoid yeah because that's what people see if you like screw up things in the initial phases here. We'll Unknown 24:51 just we'll go through the whole project and how many clients are stakeholders and really participate in this process. Unknown 24:58 I mean, how many persons from department what different I mean what we try to enforce as early as possible is to enforce one responsible person on client side when we try I mean this is sometimes a little bit the problem because we cannot enforce all the clients work internally, but really try to enforce it to have one person at the client that takes the decisions because if you have a lot of people they're taking decisions. This is always promise. Yeah, it's really a mess because everybody wants to give his own opinions into it. Unknown 25:29 So we try to keep one person Unknown 25:33 have any of your customers never told you that they face any problems doing these questions, Unknown 25:47 sometimes they get overwhelmed by this responsibility. What do we tell them hey look, this is the last moment where you can where you can take changes to the energy happy with that. No, not but we really try to explain them why we do that. So it's not just to do to save ourselves, but also to save the project and usually will have they're not like okay please wait a little bit. We need to take more time to look through it, but this is the side for me that this works because if we don't do that. They just will check it and say, Okay, looks okay but but will change later so let go. This is something. Unknown 26:23 How do you communicate with them face to face. Unknown 26:29 We try to do as much face to face. But what we also do is for each meeting we do. We also send an email to avoid like misunderstandings have to follow, follow up. Unknown 26:43 We have to do this because we had a couple of times where the customers complain about things at the project manager was sure that he complicated. So if you have the written form. Nobody can play music player Unknown 26:58 who does the market research Unknown 27:04 responsibility or is it more responsibility. I mean, your company's does it do company. Oh, you mean provide like you know yeah what we provide for some for some customers and we provide also the consulting. So when we have an app running for them. What we also do is we check. Okay. And on analytics. How are the users using it. What were the biggest drop off rate parts and then we give them like feature proposals we identify things which needs change and what we provide them to them and say, okay, we would recommend you to do this, we want. Yes. No. If yes, don't go to the next project. If not, it's ok it's your decision, but this is when your project is already deployed. Right. Yeah. What do you do before because we do that as well. Unknown 27:48 We try to enforce a couple of things to the customer usual cases, especially when you have startups, they think that they need to to to create the world's voice first before they go into market and I was pointed out to me. Look, if your unique selling point his wife, then you don't need the Rose, Rose, you can go with a little Toyota and then start to be the world for us out of it. Unknown 28:10 And this is something where we take sometimes like a decision power hands because the people want to have like full version already and this is a big one to outsource the the market research or user research work or no we don't do that we do with mainly in house project manager does it. But this is something which is not structured or systemized world right now. So is it depending Unknown 28:37 on Could it be a problem right now because the project managers all the new basically understand like the basic principles, but I can imagine that when you have, but is it mainly because you add some more enterprise oriented. Unknown 28:52 If you had let's say apps like some I didn't know don't like it. I know I don't think this is the three threes company don't into the video was managing the project if this individual is about who tries to get himself to the customer chair. Unknown 29:12 This works. Unknown 29:14 I was lucky on and all the people I employed your we're not all had the skilled, but I can imagine if I will have an employee in the future, which is like a great project manager, but lacks a little bit this market understanding, I would need to enforce legacy system in order to work with additional partners for it. Unknown 29:35 I suppose your users are globally distributed now so they're not just betting on the project if we take this is one of flagship project. Yes, that's good. Unknown 29:50 So let's say if you have users. Now nobody distribute it but then how do you make decisions like what they want. Because plan. Let's say users in Switzerland might have different regions, is that you can you can really see the Unknown 30:06 Google Analytics or analytics tools in general are the biggest indicator for things like that you have a drop off one particular feature is a lot of drop offs. You know that there is change report and you'll see the most of my country. Unknown 30:21 So if you yeah so you use Google Analytics yeah heavily but right now we're looking for other solution because they will deprecate Google Analytics by end of year really not not the normal ground is what the Google Analytics for mobile apps mobile apps, because they purchase far based couple of years ago. So yeah, they're enforcing far based on this we are really trying to evaluate also other solutions Unknown 30:53 we do collect non functional requirements or is it Unknown 30:59 we don't want to be honest. Sometimes it Unknown 31:05 just causes problems. Unknown 31:07 So you don't ask your customers but you know yourself okay these are the important non functional requirements. Yeah, understand like the use case of this app. This is something very essential to be to understand what problem is trying to solve some based on this, you can take like couple of. Unknown 31:27 So, which are the biggest non functional requirements which you consider which you can name, maybe quickly Unknown 31:35 just also a couple of projects Unknown 31:40 like speed performance or lot of stress and most people don't care about this is really interesting what I consider in this direction, very important is like the to concede to something. Yeah, this is something a lot of people take over everything which is sometimes a little bit sad but i mean it's it's for the week market works security Unknown 32:10 depending on the customer. I mean, you have customers, which will sensitive data. So the security is a very big concern there but mostly thoughts choice to get Unknown 32:25 up today prototype Unknown 32:29 depending on the project what we do. Sometimes we create little so you do wire frames and mockups your boyfriend soco always. But what we also do sometimes like kicked off for bigger projects, but those are usually Separated Values sub projects. So what project to just the point the the proof of concept. Unknown 32:54 So we have, we do have economically building prototypes, or is it just saw I mean usually this is a very little projects. So, but what what is a big advantage of those is as soon as the customer can click something and it looks already how we wanted is always very happy if any in the background. Do you have like an empty nothing like this color yeah of responsible for the lead to bigger projects. Yes, but the the prototypes of themselves do us any good techniques focus groups workshops. Unknown 33:32 No, not really. Unknown 33:35 Okay. Unknown 33:38 Do you use any mobile tools for solicitation or requirements gathering or any features of mobile devices like camera on location or whatever. Unknown 33:51 No, we don't know not really don't know what we do a lot of this with your normal you about to teach Unknown 34:01 me Unknown 34:08 two years users have preferences regarding operating systems which they want Unknown 34:15 iOS or Android or is it your decision. What we do is we recommend something so you recommend but I mean, right now, the recommendation is always to target both platforms all Muslims, because the technology we use makes almost no additional cost important both platforms Unknown 34:36 newbie hybrid apps. We almost exclusively incompetence hundred apps. Yeah, we stopped native apps like two or three years ago. Unknown 34:45 And the reason costs Unknown 34:52 the technological advantages. Unknown 35:09 We'll start with. Unknown 35:11 I mean, initially we did normal native development that will start to worry about we essentially from Next, use the couple of years and we ditched it because they change their company policy completely and their strategy and then we started to use ionic with version one and it works so well for us that we continue to use it and we really built also some very heavy apps which we have any observations regarding the performance of hybrid apps against native apps, because this is what I've learned and put on it that usually people start with hybrid apps to get the users and within six months period they go for native. This is the usual way what we we have this this big project last year this global one, this was for for both they had a native app previously. Unknown 36:05 This was a decision I took them. I wanted to go with a framework and the people involved with the project were like, Oh, no, no. This will cause a lot of problems and I really enforced it that we did it with hybrid didn't work so well in terms of performance that Unknown 36:28 for me this was really the proof that you can do almost everything was hybrid right on in the biggest advantages you write code once and you deploy to wash the dishes. This is something that there is of course if I, as a developer check nap. I notice immediately. This is a hybrid they're doing. Yeah, because you know they know there's this from the automation. Yeah, they're always called the Valley of notice WebKit no no no no this there is this the psychological psychological phenomenon called the Unknown 37:04 what something looks almost like something else, but not 100% it feels wrong. Yeah. Okay, you know what I mean, not even here for example animations. Yeah, where people are already made and they're so good animated but not 100% you immediately notice there's something wrong women and this is the same for me for hybrid apps when I when I use them. I see immediately the way hold the scrolling behavior has been slower. It's just different you know like this yeah works from the different platforms are not 100% emulated but this is not a problem for your customers. Oh, absolutely not. I mean most people don't notice this and this is something which I really see is this discussion hybrid versus native is always exclusively taken by tech people, not by normal people. Now this is the problem because I'm not normal people doesn't mean people with with without the technical background. Unknown 38:00 This is something wrong because we need to take those people as well into this discussion to be. Unknown 38:07 Yeah. So for us it really worked and I think it was more calls for more people but you know there's still this this technical Unknown 38:15 slide. Unknown 38:17 For me it is Unknown 38:21 looking for you have to really use religion part where people say no hybrid this shit in other we would have been dealing with it for a couple of years now and I've actually seen like version one and how they do that, yes, it's quite a huge implement what they have done what I also hear a lot of times the apps are on the call this company to the shit I can't see with a good feeling that our reps fulfill very high standards of course because I have a developer background so I always enforced with from quality and we have also have which contains all for example 60,000 lines of code between IoT and it still was all your to using my next now this they have this all automated CDC I yeah yeah we use we use Unknown 39:11 which tools we use usually for requirements we want. Unknown 39:15 I mean, who have walked through why enforcing all project managers called store your mouth studying. Yeah, it's a yes you have to add for the mockups we use Masonic select the fastest yeah and Gina countries. Yeah, we have JIRA for the whole company project management. Unknown 39:38 We have heavily customized we have built a couple of own connectors on top of it on the API, with only integrations two different systems and that's something we something which works but the whole Unknown 39:59 maybe we can talk about it now. Unknown 40:02 So how do you handle legal issues do you face any legal issues. Unknown 40:07 No, not yet, stay the way that they can they can happen right it's not taken up and to be honest this is something to take into consideration the future because we had a couple of cases where we almost got into trouble but yeah i mean i think if you have a solid contracting work most of those problems wouldn't happen but you never know. Unknown 40:35 Right. Unknown 40:39 Have you ever encountered any security, which Unknown 40:43 is which kind of breeze breeze not we had one one afterwards the customer organized the penetration test district test and they found a couple of things, but they were mostly known after deployment don't know they were after deployment of our opinion they were not that that physically gunning Can you I can tell you a couple of those work for example was the Unknown 41:10 the CSP season the CSP was holding forth properly, for example, or Yeah, things like that. I'll be small things which to be honest I'm asking because couple of my colleagues are working on the API abusers and mobile apps. And so yeah, so this is also interesting for them like usually like people who develop mobile apps. They do not know, or this security related things cryptography, and various things we because they're not experts in that. Yeah, of course. I mean, it is it's a very heavy. Exactly. Unknown 41:42 Yeah. Unknown 41:44 What you will encounter anything. Unknown 41:46 What I can tell you, I mean, depending on the customer type of project type we take it more serious or less serious is the wrong word but what we always have the basic principles you have like everything is encrypted. We don't store clear data and things like that. So, but I mean you have customers, where it's really relevant to have very high security standards and for those cases we have technicians no network which are very security oriented security experts and yeah we have experts, maybe the wrong word because really a security expert the things a lot, but people which are very much, have a good feeling about it, security, Unknown 42:28 so you do have any legal experts also all along, we have we have like our department company Unknown 42:39 do a little bit better. Switch to those kinds of things. So if anything appears we have the exact outsourcing. Unknown 42:49 Yeah, more or less. Unknown 42:53 Have you any copyrights patents for your apps on any products, though not for you because we don't visit even a concern in the industry or not just you like in general. Unknown 43:06 No, I don't think so. I mean, you can if if you have copyright infringement. You can the laws whiteboards this direction and really enforced. You're right there. So it's on the problem you can prove it, and usually it you can prove it because you have everything like documented. Unknown 43:24 So we also do the second part. Yeah. And now the last part which is just the differences between the traditional software development and mobile app Unknown 43:33 you wanna take a break or it's no sorry, I just got a message Unknown 43:50 but problem is I need to enough know ready to go. Yeah, I think we will finish before that if I if I had no that you come here I will have organized on things you know like we could have gone somewhere and things like that because it's beautiful day today about and planning to go there anyway yeah but yeah anyway so we'll first finish it up. Yeah. So do you think the traditional software development is different than mobile app development. Unknown 44:19 That's a good question Unknown 44:27 do you treat mobile apps differently than normal surface we don't we don't but our processes are started with mobile def so it's not you know there are a couple of things which the first. But I mean, basically, the process is the same, but it's interesting because what I noticed in the market is a lot of companies will provide software. The know sort of mobile def do not stick to software principles and older you like those agencies, which started to build software. Additionally, and they usually don't stick to those normal renewals. Be specific like which yeah I mean by domain names, of course. But what I can tell you is, for example, what I noticed, most of them. Unknown 45:09 They have somebody developing in house. For example, and then they give you like the whole project say okay is build it starts to build it, then you're always adults and then the customer. That's it. Unknown 45:21 There is no like testing involved there is no code reviews involved. There's no like good architecture. The thoughts behind the software. So what do you think that architected from the whenever differ significantly than that have no no, absolutely not. I mean, what, what difference is I mean you haven't deployed, which is the mobile app instead of having a client which runs on the desktop. But the principles are the same. You have the normal Leslie do is more thinking about design than the traditional web applications know what you'll need your office that Unknown 46:01 that you are less flexible in terms of what when you know in burgeoning you you cannot when you have a website or a web application, we can roll out updates as much as you want for mobile apps, you're limited to the app stores at the problem is there that you're limited in this particular report you cannot draw with five updates per day. Unknown 46:23 So they have source. Unknown 46:24 Okay. I mean, for example, if you want to roll roll the new binary, you have to send to Apple, they will check it would take like three days. Unknown 46:33 This is cool because this increased couple of years ago, it took like seven to eight days after they got into review and so it basically slows down the process. Yeah. Did you take sort of flexibility you are right now we are using two or three years we using this Unknown 46:50 so I only deploy when you can roll out updates around the App Store. But the problem is you cannot roll out native of this like this and we are still making parts know what if, like the natively or if you need to update the plugin you need to go through them store. Unknown 47:06 So this is a big change your face and the other problem is you have especially on bandwidth. This is a big problem Unknown 47:14 a lot of different clients have like devices Unknown 47:19 different screen sizes. This is really I mean sometimes also annoying Unknown 47:25 do non functional requirements play a different role in case of mobile apps than your traditional web apps or suffers Unknown 47:35 dos if you have if you create an app which is publicly available that He has for example speed performance crashes precious, of course crashes are because you can do I think crash crash is the biggest type of nightmare. Unknown 47:57 Yeah. Unknown 48:00 Does the requirements gathering process differs for mobile apps from traditional notions. It's the same doesn't know it doesn't say do you have to adapt your techniques to that or it is not needed. No, not countries, you know, state to say Unknown 48:20 what are the biggest challenges for gathering requirements for bikers Unknown 48:35 be the same as normal software for think every possible situation or any situations with which can lead to a bottleneck within their I think this is the hardest thing generally requirements to Tony mean that this is the process or let's let's say you have an app where you want to provide the people the way of Unknown 49:06 chatting and then you have one requirement, which is called the login you need to have a login, but during the development, you see that Unknown 49:20 you forgot that there are also people who do not have mobile phone numbers for some things like that. So you cannot during the requirements engineering, you cannot for see every possible use case later for us in our own development process. This is like this causes a lot of problems. Unknown 49:39 This is why I always try to tell the people a invest as much time as possible into the requirements engineering to avoid so it's I think it is about the scenarios which you have to manage like the scenarios but also things like draft these edge cases where people do things which are absolutely not, not for civil by you. I can tell you one particular thing. We had a couple of years ago we built an app and for a Unknown 50:09 company total app, but it was used across verticals employees water work remote and the app, all of a sudden started to couple of people that didn't work. It didn't connect the server and we were really thinking about what type, they are in the back end was stable the requests were simple I mean just the request got an answer in their work and then we introduce a lot of analytics into it remote debugging and things like that that we notice. Okay. We had a couple of people connected with the with the Wi Fi for example in the hotel, which had a captive gate, you know, this gates, where you have to enter your phone number and get an SMS and then you're allowed to surf the internet. Unknown 50:54 The problem is the the device was actually connect with the Wi Fi so we didn't get the memo, but the requests didn't go to the server. They were stopped by this captive gate. It's like a firewall. Yeah, like a firewall and you've got like a normal answer back. He didn't work or something you cannot force forces. So this is this is what you learn to experience to experience. I know, I know it and I will never forget that again because we spend that amount of time to find it so yeah Unknown 51:31 stores like Google Play or Apple App Store. Yeah, they have their own standards. Yeah, I mean i think Apple influences a lot on designers. Yeah. Does it kind of affect your process Unknown 51:45 also like security checks. I think they both have security chairs. I have don't want what we had or what we have a lot of times they change requirements. We don't know about it, submit a new version with just a little change like box or something and something which was allowed the previous versions is not allowed anymore. So we need to change it and this caused quite proper we sell you know and keep track of what they are. We have to work to me you don't do it enough so this is the problem. The problem is December we had this particular case where we submitted the new bug fix it was really a hot fix me neither to submitted as soon as possible and the feature which worked previously was not allowed anymore in the way we implemented it so the rejected. How is the communication with them. Unknown 52:36 It's automated. I mean, you have you submitted and drop this review board where you get notifications, you have to test iTunes Connect app which sends you so you don't have any influence on it so you can speed up the process, almost, you can require although it's called expert review but I mean this is just like a request if they do it or not. Still, are there any decisions you make in your development. Do they depend on voice releases new versions or external libraries for example diversions and so on to the effect yours, yours. I mean, if you see that to me to upgrade some system within the app Android need to lose for the new release the new and this is also something which is a problem sometimes for the customers because they don't understand that you need to maintain a nap. Also, it's not only to traditional two different for mobile apps than your traditional web applications. Right. So there you do not have this kind of trouble you haven't been way way less Unknown 53:44 Do you consider old people blind people or kids, Unknown 53:51 they might have special needs. Unknown 53:53 Our past projects not we haven't got any project where the target goal Unknown 54:02 of the users was like 14. Unknown 54:05 He was so good, it might make sense if I may say something, but this is something you need to take individually based on the protocol use case. Unknown 54:16 Okay. Do you mean any platform constraints. For example, I think they also kind of enforce the size of the classes and so on. So you cannot have big clauses huge number of lines of code and so on our app size even abscess macro. Not really. Is this something we don't take into consideration. A lot of times because usually drawback of the technology were using as I'm learning the fact that we are using the deploy system and the ecosystems keeps always three at version small technically on the device usually our apps are quite locals, but the customer knows it, and usually they don't care. I mean, they don't know you have iPhones with 64 gigabyte but your app store doesn't complain about. No, no. They don't care and drafted up so you have games which are five gigabytes so okay Unknown 55:09 okay so this is now like a rapid fire kind of questions. Yes. So you had to reflect on the following points and you tell if they're crucial for the app for consumption. Sorry for consumption do consider it. How does it play a role. Unknown 55:25 We have one app where it plays a big role and where we really worked on having the power consumption soon as possible. Yeah. Unknown 55:33 Is it also one of the concerns for customers like depending on in this particular case it was, but most of other cases not operating system generation mobile phone devices, it is this is always a point where the customer tries to give his opinion into it and say okay my users use this this third party libraries and the versions. Yes, this is very important, important causes quite some headache was sometimes mobile ads and revenue generation. Unknown 56:04 No, not this, not, not, not at all. Unknown 56:07 I think it is special because you do not will open the we don't have all products but in that case it might matter or mommy. This is all one of those ways right now to generate revenue on top of in app purchases user feedback on app stores. I think you can showcase it as we have a couple of customers really really thick, heavy Unknown 56:35 which I find that really important to have good reviews but most of these data privacy, just as most of that concern us. Unknown 56:49 This is also something which I really try to enforce because I'm not a big fan of those apps, who to trust things better. And do they had any consequences because of GDPR yeah we had with one project, we need to provide way of exporting data to lead copy data from yes legal constraints, not in your case that this may not be related to you. This is the last question. So is revenue generation through mobile apps are concerned with the pitfalls. I think also depends on the business model, you're working so for us as a company, not but we have customers, which rely heavily on on the revenue generated by their apps. Unknown 57:33 But for us, not Unknown 57:41 i think that's that's all we have for the questions I think we are done in time, so Okay, perfect. I just thought this. This transcript was generated by https://otter.ai